David Reagan - How Christians Should Vote with Marsha Kuhnley
What should guide Christian voting? Should it be party labels? Stay tuned.
David Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus our Blessed Hope and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. My colleague, Colonel Tim Moore and I have a very special guest in the studio with us today. Her name is Marsha Kuhnley and she is from Albuquerque, New Mexico. We had her on this program a couple months ago when we were discussing the Rapture, and her wonderful book, the first book she had written in Bible prophecy, which was outstanding called, “Rapture 911” which people can find out about when they go to your website. And we’ll tell you later on in the program how to find that website. But today, we want to talk about her latest book which is called, “Your Vote Matters: The Election Omen.” Boy, what a cover.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.
David Reagan: But anyway. We want to talk аbout: What should guide Christian voters? When a Christian goes to the polls what should determine how they vote? Should it be a party label for example? Go for it.
Marsha Kuhnley: Sure. Well, first, thanks for inviting me back, Dave, I appreciate being here again. And no, it’s not party labels that should guide our voting. It’s really certain issues that the Bible speaks about that will help us identify which particular candidate to vote for.
David Reagan: Let’s get specific. What issues do you got in mind?
Marsha Kuhnley: Sure, so the first one that I have is abortion. So, life. We have to remember that God He is the creator of life, He values life. So, that one is a big deal to God.
David Reagan: It would be hard to find one more important.
Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly. Exactly. That is my redline.
David Reagan: Okay, so that is the issue, but what is the Christian position?
Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, sure, so the Christian position is that you can’t be pro-abortion, you have to be pro-life, so you have to vote for a candidate that is pro-life as well. And that means not supporting a candidate even if they’re against late term abortion, it is a candidate that is against any kind of abortion. You have to be pro-life on this, just like God is, He values life.
David Reagan: He values life, right.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Marsha Kuhnley: Absolutely. I found even as I served in the legislature, Marsha, in Kentucky, that I could determine where a particular elected official was going to come down on a whole host of issues based on what they declared on life. And what was most galling and very, very sad was there were a number of folks who would declare themselves, “Oh, I’m pro-life,” until it came time for a vote, and then they would waver, or they’d actually slip out of the room and disappear and they would not vote for life. And so, really they were not pro-life. We had a few that fragrantly violated their own vow to support all pro-life legislation and they refused to do it.
David Reagan: Tell her about your shocking correspondence with the nuns.
Tim Moore: Oh, well, when I was early on in my legislative tenure I got letters from all sorts of people. I got a letter from a group of nuns in Kentucky, Catholic nuns, and they were advocating that I support various ecological efforts to save trees and save the ecology. And of course, I responded to them, as I wrote back to everyone who took the time to write me. And I said, “I believe that we should be a good steward of nature, and of the creation. The Lord has put us in charge of being stewards of the creation itself.” But I said, “Of course one of the primary issues that I care about most is life, so I also believe that we should advocate for life especially the unborn, and the innocent life that God has created.” And they wrote back to me and said, “We have enough babies. Just worry about saving the trees.”
Marsha Kuhnley: What?!
Tim Moore: I thought, “Good heavens, a group of Catholic nuns that could care less about babies and is more concerned about trees.” And that’s really the state of our society.
Marsha Kuhnley: It is, yeah.
David Reagan: Alright, what is another issues Christians should be concerned about?
Marsha Kuhnley: Well, the next one I go over in the book is on gender issues. So, this business around LGBTQ+ movement. Now, the Bible is very clear, even thought a lot of people don’t think it is, the Bible is very clear.
David Reagan: It’s absolutely clear. Two genders.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes. God created men and women. And He sanctified marriage with a man and a woman.
David Reagan: I think in New York City now they have recognized over 50 genders.
Marsha Kuhnley: My goodness. Yeah, that’s the plus, it is will never end.
Tim Moore: It won’t end.
David Reagan: Because it will keep growing and growing.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes, yes.
Tim Moore: The confusion that reigns, and the deception. You know I find it fascinating, the things that you are speaking of whether it is abortion or life, the gender wars and some of the sexual revolution, obviously we believe in the sanctity of marriage, as instituted by God. And even religious liberty which I have a feeling we are going to touch on.
Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, yeah.
Tim Moore: Those are things that were exposed by the Manhattan Declaration. I actually promoted that in Kentucky, and in a number of other states have; declaring a Christian cry of conscious to support life, marriage, and religious liberty. And those are the three institutions that are under attack the most today by the radical left.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes, they are. And in fact, in this whole LGBTQ+ agenda there is some legislature that’s been proposed it is called the Equality Act. And it has nothing to do with equality whatsoever. In fact, it actually would be a significant impact on our religious liberty.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Marsha Kuhnley: It would essentially give LGBTQ+ persons all of their rights would trump everything else, including Christian’s rights.
David Reagan: I’ve noticed that for years in legislation that when somebody comes up with a radical piece of legislation they always give it some beautiful, emotional name.
Marsha Kuhnley: Right.
David Reagan: And misleading name.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes, it is very misleading.
David Reagan: It appeals to the emotions and it’s totally misleading. Let me ask you this: I find Christians saying to me today, “Well, I don’t care about the marriage situation, that’s settled the Supreme Court said it is okay, so it is okay.”
Marsha Kuhnley: Well, I would say it doesn’t matter what the courts say; it matters what God says. And as Christians we have to stand up for what the Bible says, and what God teaches. Because if we don’t, I mean we are supposed to the ambassadors for Jesus down here, so if we are not standing up for Him who else is going to do it?
David Reagan: Slavery was legal for 100 years in this country, did it make it right?
Tim Moore: No.
Marsha Kuhnley: No!
Tim Moore: No, it did not make it right. I use the example the Dred Scott Decision where the Supreme Court declared that a black man was equivalent to a horse. And I said, that is total abomination, and yet, that was a legal precedent. We obviously had to get beyond a Supreme Court precedent, and they finally recognized that the Supreme Court was wrong. Well, they are wrong in this case as well.
David Reagan: They are wrong on abortion too.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.
David Reagan: Okay, what is another issue that Christian should be concerned with?
Marsha Kuhnley: Well, a big one is Israel.
David Reagan: Hey, that is one of my favorites.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah.
David Reagan: Go for it.
Marsha Kuhnley: So, I think a lot of people in the United States think that we shouldn’t care about other countries, you know they want to focus internally. But Israel is a huge part of God’s plan, and it is very important for us as Christians to understand that God has a heart for Israel. And the Bible says that people who bless Israel will get a blessing, and people who don’t get a curse instead. So, we need to understand what that means. If we elect politicians who are not going to act favorably to Israel that’s going to have a consequence on us here in the United States as well.
David Reagan: It certainly has, yes.
David Reagan: Absolutely, God means what He says on that. And I just can’t emphasize that strongly enough. And yet, in this country today we have all the quote on quote “progressives” turning against Israel saying, that Israel is a Nazi state. Saying that Israel discriminates. That Israel has apartheid. And all of those are lies, absolute lies.
David Reagan: Yeah.
Tim Moore: Yes, they are.
David Reagan: But as Goebbels said, “If you repeat that lie often enough, and make it big enough, people will start to believe.”
Marsha Kuhnley: People will believe it.
David Reagan: So, what does the candidate say about Israel? Alright, you’ve got gun rights in here.
Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
David Reagan: Second Amendment.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes, so, a lot of people would argue, or believe that Jesus is like this gentle Jesus. Right? They consider Him the baby in the manger, and they don’t think that He would be an advocate for gun rights. Well, that is just one aspect of Jesus I would say. In the New Testament we learn that Jesus essentially defended what He needed to. So, when He approached the Temple, and there were all these money changers in the Temple that had no business being there, He got out a whip, and He drove them all out of the Temple. Right?
Tim Moore: Jesus, meek and mild drove out the money changers?
Marsha Kuhnley: He did. He did. Right. So, I essentially explain in the book that Jesus would be an advocate for gun rights and protecting what you need to.
David Reagan: Well, Christians should be very concerned about that because if you know anything about modern history, you know that totalitarian regimes go after two things, they go after Bibles and guns.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah.
David Reagan: Get rid of the Bibles, get rid of the guns, and the people are helpless, and now we can tell them what to do.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.
Tim Moore: And really it’s not just to defend our own property, our own rights, we have a responsibility, government indeed has a responsibility, to defend the defenseless, the innocent, and so to stand in the gap, so to speak, be watchmen, and to be ready to defend all those other rights, especially religious liberty in this land. So, the Second Amendment guarantees that we can protect all the other rights, given to us not by government but by God, until this point respected by government, sometimes not so much lately.
David Reagan: You know with this recent pandemic scare there were so much trampling of constitutional rights by governors who were legislating, although they are not legislatures. And telling people they can’t meet, and they can’t do this, and they can’t do that. And one mayor I believe it was they said, “Well, what you said is a violation of the Constitution.” And he said, “Well, that’s above my paygrade.”
Tim Moore: Yeah, above my paygrade. Well, a governor, excuse me the Mayor of New York City threatened churches that if they did not abide by his dictates he would close them down permanently. Now, he has no authority to do that. That is grossly unconstitutional.
David Reagan: One of the governors that’s held out the longest on opening things up. They said, “When are you going to open things up?” He said, “When you prove to me that you can responsible I will return your rights.”
Marsha Kuhnley: What?
David Reagan: Our rights don’t come from government, they come from God. Government is supposed to protect those rights.
Tim Moore: I will share with you a concern that I have that even Christians can be deceived in the times such as this pandemic. I was talking to a lady just recently who was expressing concern over some of our criticisms of various governors. And she’s a Christian, said that she obviously believes in the Word of God. And I said, “Well, the most important issues to me when I consider any elected official is their position on life, their position on religious liberty, and their position on marriage, honoring the God sanctioned relationship between a man and a woman.” She said, “Oh, yes, all those are the most important.” I said, “Then why would you be upset?” She said, “Well, I just feel that these governors who are trying to make all these dictates they are just trying to protect us all.”
David Reagan: I feel?
Tim Moore: And I said, “Well, mam your feelings can be so misleading. Obviously, Jeremiah himself says, that the heart is more deceitful than all else.”
Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly.
Tim Moore: And I said, “You are being deceived by sometimes feeling. If you understand and you agree that those issues are more important then what else matters?” She said, “Well, I know, but I just feel that we should follow the dictates.” And it was back to the emotional appeal. And we as Christians have to avoid being deceived.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.
Tim Moore: What is your thought regarding the deception that is paramount, and rampant in our world today?
Marsha Kuhnley: Well, the Bible tells us that before the Tribulation, actually during the Tribulation deception is going to be rampant. God actually sends strong delusion. And we can see it today. I think that now more than ever it very important for Christians to read the Bible, and know what God’s Word says, so that you can act your faith out into the world.
David Reagan: You’ve really touched on the problem there because we have a famine of the Word in America today.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah.
Tim Moore: Yes, we do.
David Reagan: The average person has no idea what’s in the Bible. They haven’t read the Bible. They don’t read it. I’m talking about average Christians. And so many pulpits today are preaching self-help lessons, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, have a good positive attitude, modern psychology, instead of teaching the fundamentals of God’s Word. Why, for example, the virgin birth is essential to the deity of Jesus, and the resurrection, and everything. The average Christian– Walter Martin was the greatest expert on cults ever produced in modern history in Christianity. And he once made the comment he said, “The average Jehovah’s Witness can turn the average Christian into a pretzel in two minutes, because they know what they believe and they know how to prove it, and the average Christian doesn’t even know what He believe.”
Tim Moore: That’s so sad.
Marsha Kuhnley: That is sad.
David Reagan: Well, you’ve got another issues here and that’s drugs. What’s the issue?
Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, sure. Well, a lot of Christians think that it is okay to legalize drugs. So, we see around the country and in a lot of states that they’re passing legislation to legalize marijuana for example.
David Reagan: And what will be next?
Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, who know what will be next, right? It could be anything. But yeah, as Christians we need to realize that Satan wants to attack us from any number of ways. And if he can attack our ability to reason, and think clearly, we need to prevent him from being able to do that.
Tim Moore: Absolutely.
David Reagan: Another issues you’ve got here is a real hot button, climate change.
Marsha Kuhnley: Oh, oh, yes. So, a lot of people today think that essentially that the climate is out of control, and that humans have the ability to do something about it. Right? And the Bible teaches something quite different. We know that God created the world and everything in it, and that God is in perfect control of His
creation. And that means that God is controlling the hurricanes, and the earthquakes and the famines, and all of these things.
David Reagan: He has control of the weather.
Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly. God controls the weather. So, we shouldn’t be so arrogant to think that humans can impact it. God uses the weather for any number of things. In the Bible He uses it oftentimes to bring people to Him.
Tim Moore: And He declared that that would be one of the signs pointing to the end times, is the increase of natural calamities whether hurricanes, or storms, earthquakes, all of those things would be increasing in frequency and in intensity. And that is what we are witnessing.
David Reagan: I always get tickled about this climate change anyway because they talk about well, what we got to do is get rid of all the CO2 in the atmosphere, you know. And 90% of that is produced by the ocean, the amount produced by man is almost negligible.
Tim Moore: Right.
David Reagan: But, if they really push that it gives them control over society, because then they can say to an industry, well you’ve got to pay a special tax because you are producing too much CO2 or whatever.
Tim Moore: It’s already happened, that has already happened.
David Reagan: So, you go through a whole lot of issues here. And you have a chapter entitled: “Whose Responsibility is it?” So, what is that all about?
Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah, a lot of people wonder whose responsibility is it to take care of the homeless for example. Is it the government’s responsibility to have social programs, build houses for the homeless, to make sure that they are fed every day? So, in that particular chapter I discuss that no, it is not the governments responsibility. In the Bible God is clear that its each individuals’ persons responsibility to take care of their family and their friends.
David Reagan: Amen. Amen. Well, Marsha that reminds me of a very good example of that. In 1900 we had the greatest natural disaster in the history of the United States, and that was the Galveston Hurricane that killed 6,000-10,000 people, the water just completely went over the island. And when it was over with, there was no federal aid. There was no state aid. What happened was the survivors got together, they organized into groups. One group gathered bodies. Another group took them out and dumped them into the sea for several days, but they kept washing up, so they started burning them. Another group started raising the level of the island by bringing in dirt. Another group took all the debris and burned it. Another group started building a sea wall. They did all this on their own.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.
David Reagan: And yet, when Hurricane Katrina occurred everybody stood in the water and said, “When is the government going to come get us? When is the government going to come help us?”
Tim Moore: I’m reminded in World War II, even as the United States Army was marching across Europe, they had disdain for villages that refused to even clean up their own debris and just said, “Well, when is somebody going to come and clean up our debris?” And yet, we’ve arrived at that. One of the things that is striking to me, Marsha, is talking about some of these issues and how have we gotten to where we are today? We are like the frog in a pot that the water has been getting hotter and hotter, and now it’s boiling, and people say, “Oh, my goodness, well how did we get here?” And I remind them that the Lord had a message to the church of Thyatira in Revelation. As a matter of fact in chapter two He dictated a letter to the church there in Thyatira and he said, “I have this against you, that you tolerate.” And of course, what they tolerated was a particular woman who called herself a prophetess, and yet, was leading people astray. And this principle I believe applies to us today, as now 21st Century Christians, but how much have we been tolerating that is absolutely abominable in the eyes of God, and has led our nation and our society astray, and now we find ourselves boiling in a sea of deception. It’s just tragic and we’ve tolerated too much, and we need to start speaking out.
Marsha Kuhnley: I agree. I think it’s really hard because a lot of people just don’t want to stand up because it takes effort.
David Reagan: And we’re told to stand up.
Tim Moore: Exactly.
David Reagan: To be salt and light.
Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly. On the cover of the “Election Omen” I have a knight wearing armor because the Apostle Paul speaks about us wearing the armor of God. And he goes through all these things that we need to suit up in. And we have to just realize that we are living in the end times and its not going to be easy, but God has called us to stand up.
David Reagan: Well if Christians don’t speak out for righteousness no one is.
Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly, no one will.
David Reagan: And I’ve got to hurry here for a moment because the title of your book is the “Election Omen.” Could you very quickly summarize what that means.
Marsha Kuhnley: What’s the omen? Sure, so in the book I explain that the Bible has given us a pattern that we can apply to today, essentially. And it is essentially what happened to the nation of Israel if we look at them.
David Reagan: Yes.
Marsha Kuhnley: Just over time their kings started out really well. So, like King David he was considered righteous, he obeyed God. But then they kind of went through these cycle of kings where they would start to do something wicked like Solomon.
David Reagan: And a whole evil bunch, then come back to a good one.
Marsha Kuhnley: Exactly. They would get a good one.
David Reagan: Like going in a circle.
Marsha Kuhnley: And then they would progress a little worse. And then they’d get a good one, and then they’d progress even a little worse, right? So, I illustrate with the “Election Omen” that essentially the United States has been in this same kind of cycle where we’ve kind of had good leadership–
David Reagan: So, overall, you are saying even though there were good kings from time and time, they were going down like this.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes, we are getting closer and closer to–
David Reagan: To overall descent.
Marsha Kuhnley: –to the reign of the Antichrist, where we have the essentially Satan reigning on the planet.
Tim Moore: Yes. Well, I’ve actually challenged people because folks are saying, “Well, how can I know who to vote for because I don’t like this candidate, I don’t like that candidate.” And I’ve said, “What if you lived as many of our Christian brothers and sisters around the world do today in a nation where there was no Christian candidate for office? There are large nations where you have either a Hindu or a Muslim as the primary candidates for Prime Minister or President. Who should a Christian vote for? If you say well, “I can’t vote for either one of those because they are not Christian, and just sit out.” Well, you are not engaged. You are going to end up with probably the worse option. So, I’ve challenged people to think, “Who would you support?” And obviously the candidate that those brothers and sisters would have to support with their vote would be the one that would reflect most closely Christian principles or at least would honor and respect Christians and their exercise in their faith, even in that non-Christian country. Well, folks, we live today in a non-Christian country, I say, and so, don’t be deceived we are the minority. But our votes are important to try to help impact who has sway over our government that will respect Christian principles, Christian policies, and obviously the freedom of Christians to exercise their religion as the Lord has called us to do.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah, I agree. I think that people need to realize we are not going to find the perfect candidate. You are looking for Jesus at that point. Right? And He’s coming.
Tim Moore: He is.
Marsha Kuhnley: But until then we have to just picked someone, like you said, aligns with the biblical principles as close as we can get.
David Reagan: There you go.
Marsha Kuhnley: And honestly, you have to have a redline, and I talk about the redline in the “Election Omen” just make a list of the issues that are most important to you biblically. And for example, for me it is abortion, so that’s my redline, the candidate has to be pro-life. And then go down from there.
David Reagan: If they are pro-life they are going to line up on the other issues anyway.
Tim Moore: They certainly will.
Marsha Kuhnley: They should. They should.
David Reagan: You know before the 2016 election one of the candidates was Ted Cruz our United States Senator here in Texas. And we had his father on this program, a remarkable man. Grew up in Cuba. Was arrested by Castro. Was horribly tortured. Finally escaped. Got on a boat and came to the United States. Arrived here with 25 cents in his pocket. Went to work in a restaurant in Austin, Texas. And started to the University of Texas and got a degree while working at the restaurant. That is Ted Cruz’s father. And we asked him, “Do you have any guidelines for how a Christian should vote?” And he said, “Yes.” And he pointed us to Exodus 18:21, says, “You shall select,” speaking to Moses, “out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, and those who hate dishonest gain.” So, people who are not looking for bribes. People who are men of truth, and men who fear God.
Tim Moore: Yes.
David Reagan: Sounds like a good line up to me.
Marsha Kuhnley: Good plan.
Tim Moore: It certainly does. Yeah, I’ve actually advocated that same verse, because as people have a choice, it is pretty clear when you look for someone. And today, obviously, we have and men and women who stand forward for being elected. But fearing God and prioritizing a respect for His Word is the most important thing. And it’s typically a very sharp contrast between two candidates, and the platform that they support based on the vow they make. And people need to understand this, when a candidate runs for office in Kentucky, and every other state that I’m aware of, they actually to sign a form that says they promise, they make an oath, to support all the platform policies of their political party. So, even if they say, “Well, I’m pro-life.” Well, really? Your party is absolutely opposed to life. “Well, I’m pro-marriage.” Really, your party is opposed to marriage. “Well, I’m Christian.” Really your party has voted in its platform to remove God from any responsibility or respect even in our nation. And that’s the party you are aligned with. So, you have made an oath to support their policies, and their platforms. And obviously the choice becomes very stark in my mind.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes, it is. I have a chapter in the book where I share a lot of statistics on Christians, and the party that they align with. And you are right, Tim, one of the parties, the Democrat Party in particular has removed God from their party platform. And statistics show that Atheists, and Agnostics are the voters who align with the platform for the Democrat Party. Now, us as Christians we need to be mindful and knowing what our unbelievers are supporting, because we do not want to support the same things that the unbelievers support. I would suggest that if you are a Christian, and you’ve been aligned with the Democrat Party, you really need to look at their platform and realize that that party is now the anti-God party, and you should walk away.
Tim Moore: Yeah, they’ve left the Christian fold, even though some Christians are reluctant to.
David Reagan: And they readily admit it.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yeah. They certainly do.
Closing
Tim Moore: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy. Today we’ve had Marsha Kuhnley, and we’ve been discussing her excellent book, “The Election Omen” and why your
vote matters. Marsha, look into that camera and tell us how we can get a copy of this excellent book.
Marsha Kuhnley: Sure. Please go to rapture911.com for more information.
David Reagan: It is simple and to the point.
Marsha Kuhnley: Yes.
David Reagan: Thanks again.
Marsha Kuhnley: Thank you.
David Reagan: Folks that’s our program for this week, and I hope that the Lord willing you will be back with us next week. Until then, this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries, saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near.”