David Reagan - Are We in the Tribulation?
Does the worldwide pandemic mean the end of the world? Are we in the Great Tribulation? Is Bill Gates preparing the Mark of the Beast with his ID2020 tattoos? Should Christians start stockpiling food, cash, and weapons? Stay tuned.
David Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. I’m delighted to have with me in the studio today my two colleagues, Colonel Tim Moore, our Associate Evangelist and Nathan Jones, our Internet Evangelist. Nathan, you are the one who handles most of the e-mail messages that come into this ministry concerning Bible prophecy. What are the hottest topics these day?
Nathan Jones: What isn’t a hot topic these days? 2020 has really been a terrible, terrible year, hasn’t it? I mean we started with swarms of locust devouring most of Asia. Murder hornets being found in Washington. Killer tics over in Russia. Then of course you have natural disasters going on; earthquakes, volcanos going. And don’t even mention the political upheaval with the COVID, Corona Virus, locking the world down. And then you’ve got the result of the anger with race riots. And just school shutdowns, and you name it. People are wondering if that is leading up to the Tribulation because as all these different things happen, they are the big signs that point to the Bible. So, people are wondering are all these signs are leading up to something?
David Reagan: In fact, they even go further then that, some of them are asking: Are we in the Tribulation?
Nathan Jones: Right. Like for instance Bill Gates is proposing this ID2020 initiative, is that the Mark of the Beast? So, that is a hot topic right now, the Mark of the Beast. Are we living in the Tribulation? And the signs of the end times.
David Reagan: Certainly, pestilence is one of the things that is mentioned in the Tribulation. So, I can understand why people are wondering well, are we on the verge of it? Is it about to begin? Are we in it? So, let’s just start off with a question: Are we in the Tribulation now?
Nathan Jones: Okay. Emphatically, no. We are not in the Tribulation. Jesus promised that as Christians, who are Christ followers, then people would obviously, if they hate Christ, they are going to hate Christians. We are going to have little sufferings. I call those little “t” tribulations. But we are talking about an event, the Tribulation, big “T” it is like the Flood was, God’s wrath being poured out upon the world. God’s wrath will be poured out on the world again in a seven year event called the Tribulation. But yes, we have little tribulations now, but we are not living in the Tribulation.
Tim Moore: I couldn’t agree more. As matter of fact, Nathan, what Jesus said to us in John chapter 16, verse 33, it says, “In the world you will have tribulation.” And certainly, we do as Christians. Everyone who lives in the world has tribulation. So, we are experiencing more and more of that. Little “t” tribulations, troubles, and yet, not the Tribulation that we are anticipating to come upon the world prior to Jesus’ Second Coming.
Nathan Jones: Absolutely.
David Reagan: Well, Nathan, you have done some writing about this tattoo thing that Bill Gates has come up with.
Nathan Jones: Oh, ID 2020.
David Reagan: So, yeah, tell us of what it is. What is this thing?
Nathan Jones: Well, it is a little hard to pin down because there is a lot of conspiracy theory about it, and as a result the internet has been actually trying to delete a lot of the material on ID2020. Because they are saying it is conspiracy theory that it has to be erased, and so social media has been blocking and censoring it. But there are some kernels of truth to it. For one Bill Gates is just one of many companies that want to get behind what is called the ID2020 Initiative, it is to give vaccines to third world country people, mostly children and babies, and then put into them a tracking chip, and a tattoo. Now, it is not a visible tattoo, they are microdots, or they are called quantum dots, you need a special light to be able to see them. But that way then there is a beneficial side to it, it is giving vaccines to poor and needy. But we are talking about now starting to track people and keeping track of vaccines. And then giving people a digital ID which then they will be judged based on, getting a job, did have the vaccines? Well, according to your digital data, no. So, there is a lot of fear that this is the beginnings of the Mark of the Beast. And a lot of people are starting to tie this digital ID to a possible precursor to the Mark of the Beast.
David Reagan: Well, more and more people are writing in and asking if it is possible for them to take the Mark of the Beast accidently.
Tim Moore: I would say absolutely not. I think the scripture is very clear that when the Antichrist himself institutes this Mark of the Beast, together with the false prophet, it will be in order to control people, and to require almost a seal of loyalty. I’ll use the phrase a branding. So, today, last week I was out in Wyoming and I did some horseback riding with my family, and I noticed that the brand on the horses we were riding had a letter, and then an ichthus, a Christian fish. So, obviously the owner was indicating that he has faith. And so, I think that this Mark of the Beast will be a brand, if you will, showing an allegiance or a loyalty to the Antichrist, as well as a requirement for people to be able to buy and sell, as the scripture speaks to. That will not be an accidental thing. People will, I won’t say willingly, but they will knowingly engage in allowing themselves to receive this mark. And, so, we are not there yet, and it won’t be accidental.
David Reagan: Anything you want to add to that?
Nathan Jones: I think a lot of the conspiracy theory about ID2020 becoming the Mark of the Beast is a misinterpretation of the word “epi” which means in. The Mark of the Beast is on the skin. “Epi” means on, or about. And so, people read the King James Version and they’ll say, “Well, it says in, that means it must be a microchip or something hidden or tracking.” But the Apostle John in Revelation saw the mark on the forehead or the right hand, he read it. It was the name of the Antichrist or his number.
David Reagan: His number, yeah.
Nathan Jones: So, I totally agree with Tim, this is a loyalty mark. And we got to remember too that this mark will not be instituted until halfway into the Tribulation time period.
Tim Moore: Exactly. Great point.
David Reagan: Incidentally, we may have some people watching who don’t even have any idea of what we are talking about. What is the Mark of the Beast?
Nathan Jones: Well, the Mark of the Beast, if you go to Revelation 13, it talks about how the Antichrist will go into Jerusalem and he will go into the newly built Jewish temple and declare himself to be god. His false prophet, his high priest, sets up an image to be worshipped and demands that everybody worship the Antichrist by taking his mark either on his head or his forehead that is the name of the Antichrist or his number 666. Now, you can’t buy or sell unless you have that mark, so it is way to forcing people to swear allegiance to Satan. Now, it means once you take it, and the Bible is very emphatic about this, once you take it you have lost any chance of salvation. You have declared your loyalty to Satan. And that is why people don’t need to fear the mark today, for one we are not halfway into the Tribulation when it will be instituted.
Tim Moore: Yeah, timing.
Nathan Jones: And two, it is a loyalty mark. Just like Tim said, you know what you are doing. And you know you are declaring your allegiance to the Antichrist and Satan. It is not something that will accidently be done to you, and then you lose your chance of salvation.
David Reagan: Alright. Now, we have a major televangelist right now who is telling people they need to prepare bunkers. They need to stock up on food, water, ammunition, to get ready for the Tribulation because we are right on the threshold. What is your response to that?
Tim Moore: I would say, absolutely, we should always be prepared to give a defense, to give an explanation for the faith that is within us. And there are elements to where we should be prepared to help our neighbors, our fellow men and women who are suffering even in this present age. But to become a prepper, is taking it to an extreme that I think is unwise for Christians. And to think that we should be prepared to live through the Tribulation, absolutely not, that is something that the scripture never tells us to do. It never tells us to be that extreme in our preparations.
David Reagan: In fact, it tells us we are not going to be here.
Tim Moore: It tells us we are not going to be here, exactly right.
David Reagan: I wondered when you were going to get around to that.
Tim Moore: Well, that is the bottom-line, obviously. No, we are not going to be here, and we should not be focused on preparing for an event that we are not going to experience. We should be focused on helping others even now. That’s why, yeah, if you have food, share your food. If you have provisions and there is a time of natural disasters, so obviously whether it is a power outage, whether it is a storm, a natural calamity, Christians should be the first ones who are ready to assist others. But to prepare for the Tribulation, no sir, not at all.
Nathan Jones: I like what you said as these natural disasters, these wars and rumors of wars, ethnos versus ethnos, the ten signs that Jesus gave in Luke 21 said they are going to increase in frequency and intensity leading up to the Rapture, and then into the Tribulation. So, yeah, we’ve got to prepare now for that. But how do you prepare for the Tribulation? How can you stock up enough water, and guns and food to survive seven years of twenty-one judgments of God destroyed the earth? You just can’t, there is not enough to store.
Tim Moore: And I think beyond all those provisions. I think Christians should be spiritually and mentally prepared for all the troubles we are experiencing right now. As Jesus said, “In this world you will have trouble.” Think about the trouble that is impacting men and women all around us today. Christians should be ready, again, to be able assist. And a lot of that comes spiritually and just through mental preparation, sometimes through physical preparation. I talk about a women who went down in the crash on the Hudson, and now speaks about the fact that most of the people on that airplane were unable to actually unable to help others around them because they were so overwhelmed. Her faith gave her a sense of calm, and peace, and she was able to assist those who found themselves distraught. We as Christians should be so grounded in Christ, so confident in our ultimate salvation, and we are, that we can help those in a time of need, even right how.
David Reagan: And we certainly should not live in fear.
Tim Moore: No.
David Reagan: Fear comes from one person, Satan.
Tim Moore: Yes.
David Reagan: We should look forward to the future with hope.
Tim Moore: Most definitely.
Nathan Jones: Perfect love cast out fear. As Christians this is a fearful time, no doubt, but as Christians we have that perfect love in us.
Tim Moore: We have not been given a spirit of fear, but of power, love and of the ability to overcome all of these troubles.
David Reagan: And all I can say is, amen.
Nathan Jones: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our discussion of whether or not we are currently in the Tribulation. We have responded to that question with an emphatic. So, Dave what is your next question?
David Reagan: Okay. Well, I wanted to, you know we have recently experienced some of the worst rioting in the modern history of our nation. We’ve seen places looted and burned down and all kinds of things. Is this sort of an indication of what it is going to be like when the Rapture occurs?
Nathan Jones: It’s interesting when the Bible talks about the restrainer being removed from this earth at the Rapture, and a lot of people interpret that is the work of the Holy Spirit through the Church. Obviously, the Holy Spirit works during the Tribulation because people get saved. So, what you’ve got is a world that is given a terrible crisis; millions of people disappear, and there is no Church to respond to it. And it is very interesting that as this COVID-19, Coronavirus Crisis has been happening we’ve seen people forget the social distances, and forget keeping staying at home, go out marching in the streets, burning, looting, and the churches though are still being required to minimize their openings or stay closed. And to me that really resonates. I think that is God giving us an idea of what it will be like just after the Rapture. Here world this is a taste of what is going to come after the Rapture.
David Reagan: But I think it will be a 100 times worse.
Nathan Jones: Oh, absolutely.
David Reagan: Because it will not be confined to just the business districts. It is going to go out into the neighborhoods. People are going to be consumed by fear.
Nathan Jones: Something has to cause a one world leader to rise up and declare peace, and safety. So, why not have millions of people disappearing. Here we know that there are many Christians in China so obviously China will be hit as well. We need someone who comes as a peace maker to bring peace to a troubled land, and that is a great way for that to happen.
Tim Moore: I think that is a great point, in that when the Rapture occurs, and the world descends into chaos and absolute unrest. I mean you can imagine the rioting we’ve seen just multiplied by a hundred in this country and all over the world, that many will clamber for someone to restore order. We’ve used quotes in the past of a Belgium Prime Minister who said, “Give us a man who can fix this problem. Be he god or be he devil we will follow him.” And so, when the world descends into chaos this one individual will say, “I can make things right. I can restore order. And make the trains run on time,” as Adolph Hitler offered back in the 30’s in Germany. And many will clamber for just such a person to rise up and to at least settle all of the unrest. So, I do believe that we have now seen in our own country a little taste, I like that word, Nathan, of exactly what will happen following the Rapture.
Nathan Jones: Isn’t that wonderful that God gives us that? I mean He’s telling the world; this is what the future holds. This is a small taste of each of these different things. Repent, and return to me, that is the message.
David Reagan: Okay, fellas in the first part of this program we emphatically said, “No!” we are not in the Tribulation. But I wonder when you consider all of the things happening around the world today: the locust invasions, the volcanic eruptions, the increasing earthquakes, and the violence, and immorality and so forth. Would you say that we are on the threshold of the Tribulation? That we are not in it, but could we say we are on the threshold?
Tim Moore: Very much so. I think the Lord Himself said that there will be birth pangs leading up to the time of His return. And so, we are witnessing those birth pains. We are witnessing an increase in intensity and frequency of natural disasters, now these manmade or this man inspired unrest types of episodes, and so they are increasing in intensity and frequency just as the Lord foretold.
David Reagan: Recently, in our discussion so far you all have mentioned two or three times a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and the Church being taken out, that we will certainly suffer persecution and tribulation, but not be in the Great Tribulation. Well, in that regard one of the best known Christian spokesman in America today, a Messianic Jew, recently published a major book in which he argued against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. And he said that people who believe in it are motivated by a fear of having to face the Antichrist. And that is the reason they believe; they have deluded themselves into believing in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture because they are escapist who are afraid to face the Antichrist. They are not hero guys like him and his friends who are going to stand and face the Antichrist.
Nathan Jones: You know, excuse me, but I have very little empathy for these people. If you are such a super martyr go to Iran, stand on a corner, and start preaching, and you will be murdered for Christ.
David Reagan: There you go. You’ll be martyred.
Nathan Jones: You don’t have to prove your worth. Jesus says, “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship in one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son, cleanse us from all sins.” Correction that is John who said that in 1 John 1:7. Our sins are forgiven. We don’t need to enter the Tribulation to go through some kind of purification process that allows us then to go to Heaven. Jesus’ blood on the cross purifies us from all sins, and therefore we are saved. So, this idea that we have to live in the Tribulation, and that is usually the reasoning, that we have to, that there is a purification process for the Church, is unbiblical. Jesus Himself would have to be called an escapist because He promised us throughout the Bible, in 1 Thessalonians 4, and 1 Corinthians 15, and John 14 and other places that the Church, His Bride, will be taken off this earth and go up to Heaven with Him before His wrath comes upon them all.
David Reagan: The view you are mentioning there really turns the Tribulation into a Protestant Purgatory.
Tim Moore: It does.
Nathan Jones: Perfectly said, yes, it does.
Tim Moore: Scriptures says that Jesus knows how to rescue us from the wrath which is to come. And I would actually turn this around, instead of focusing on fear of the Antichrist, I would ask, are we to fear the Devil? Because he roams about right now like a prowling lion.
David Reagan: Yeah.
Tim Moore: And the answer is ironically both yes, and no. Yes, we are to have due regard.
David Reagan: Respect for him.
Tim Moore: Respect, and recognize that he is always on the prowl, and therefore we cannot take him for granted, or take his fiery darts for granted. We must stay grounded in the Word. We must stay committed to the Lord, lest the Devil undermine our testimony. Lest he tear us down to make, yet another example of a fallen Christian to the world which is watching. But at the same time, we do not fear the Devil, because Christ has already conquered death, and overcome. And so, the Devil is defeated, but we have to live in this dual position of both respecting him. And so, yes, there is an element of, I won’t call it fear, but again, understanding the power the Devil wields on this earth, but not fearing him because we are in Christ.
David Reagan: I have two responses to it, one is that we are never told in the New Testament, for example, never told, that we are to live looking for the Antichrist, we are to live looking for Jesus Christ.
Tim Moore: Amen.
David Reagan: The only ones who are told to live looking for the Antichrist are the Jewish people when Jesus said, “You better watch because when he appears you better get out of Jerusalem as fast as you can get out.” But we are never told that, the Church.
Tim Moore: No.
David Reagan: In fact, here is what we are told, Jesus in Luke 21:36 goes through all of the horrors of the Tribulation. And right at the end He says, “But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have the strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” So, when people accuse me of being an escapist, I say, “Well, Jesus said, ‘Pray that you may escape these things.'”
Tim Moore: Right.
David Reagan: I guess Noah was an escapist. I guess Lot was an escapist. God in His grace and mercy always warns before He pours out His wrath. And brother, he is doing that today in this worldwide epidemic. He is warning. He is calling this earth to repentance in His grace and mercy, He is giving us a chance to repent before He pours out His wrath.
Tim Moore: Amen.
Nathan Jones: And we are seeing too a premonition of what the great delusion will be. When the Rapture of the Church happens, it says the people willingly believe a lie. Whatever the lie is that explains the Rapture away. We are seeing people decide that police forces are not necessary to defend cities. And that only certain races lives matter, and not everybody. And there is this mindset of insanity that has gripped the world. And it is easy to see how the world will gladly believe it.
David Reagan: I am so glad you mentioned that because in Romans 1 it says that when a nation that God has blessed begins to rebel against Him, that God will step back and lower the hedge of protection, and what will happen it will be a sexual revolution, which occurred in this country in the 60’s. Then it says if the nation continues to rebel and doesn’t repent He will step back a second time, lower the hedge and there will be a great outbreak of homosexuality. Then it says that if the society continues to refuse He will step back a third time, and that third time He will turn the society over to a depraved mind. And we are seeing so many depraved recommendations today.
Tim Moore: We certainly are.
David Reagan: Like doing away with the police?
Nathan Jones: Drag queen story hour for little children?
Tim Moore: Well, we’ve commented on those things many, many times. Obviously, the Lord Jesus Christ came not to save any one race or tribe of people, but for all mankind, regardless of race, color or creed. And so, the blood of Christ, the red blood of Christ covers all of mankind who will put their faith in Him. And I can go back to what we closed out our previous segment on, which is Paul’s declaration in 2 Timothy 1:7, “For God has not given us a spirit of timidity or of fear, but of power, and love, and discipline.”
Tim Moore: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our discussion of whether or not we are currently in the Tribulation. Dave, I think we’ve made our answer to that question very clear, but what else do you have for us?
David Reagan: Well, folks, I would like to present a summary of all that we have said on this program. And I want to do so by presenting a brief video that is a part of a new outreach of this ministry, it is called Prophetic Perspectives. These are brief videos prepared by the three of us that we post on our website. They consist of biblical perspectives on current national, and international events. I was particularly impressed recently when I saw one that was prepared by Tim and Nathan, and I would like to share it with you right now as a summary of this program.
Prophetic Perspective #9: Are We in the Tribulation?
Nathan Jones: Hello, my name is Nathan Jones, the Internet Evangelist with Lamb & Lion Ministries.
Tim Moore: And I’m Tim Moore, the Associate Evangelist for Lamb & Lion Ministries, and we are glad you have joined us today. We are going to continue a conversation about this current Coronavirus Pandemic and a lot of questions that are on people’s hearts and minds. One of which, quite frankly is, is this the end of the world? Are we in the Tribulation, perhaps? Nathan, what do you think?
Nathan Jones: Well, I would say definitely not folks, we are not living in that seven-year time period that has been prophesied throughout the Bible; the time of Jacob’s Trouble, or the Last Days, where we read that God will pour out twenty-one judgments, as explained in Revelation 6-19, that will befall the earth to judge the earth for its sins. Clearly, we are in a time period leading up to that that Jesus taught in Luke 21, and Matthew 24 where He gave ten signs that were prophesied that we would be getting closer, and closer to His soon return, they would come more frequent, and intense like birth pains. Tim, I would say the two categories that the Coronavirus would fall under is one, pestilence, which would be an increase in plagues and pestilence, and two, fearful events as a result of this, obviously will be economic collapse, people committing suicide. What do you think?
Tim Moore: Well, I agree with you completely. And I appreciate what you said about birth pains because the Lord in Matthew chapter 24 referred to all of the natural signs, the other cataclysms, even the hearing and rumors of wars that would happen and He said, all those things must take place. But then in Matthew 24:8 He said, “But all of these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.” And we know that birth pains, at least everyone who has had a child, or whose wife has had a baby, knows that birth pains begin slowly, and infrequently, they increase in both intensity and in frequency until the moment that a baby arrives, the birth. And so, when the birth pains start you know that that birth is imminent, and coming very soon, but you don’t know the exact moment. And of course in Luke chapter 21, the Lord continued that same thought, it was the same sermon, but in verses 10-11 He says, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues, and famines, and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.” We are living in a time of great terror, and fear, from a whole host of calamities that could befall the earth. But we are also experiencing at this moment a plague of virtual biblical proportions. And we hear scientist tell us it could get even worse. One of the messages we want to convey is, no, this is not the Tribulation, although it is a time of tribulation, if you will. But we also know that this is a demonstration that the Lord is giving warning that the end times are drawing very close. And that is another part of His attribute, Nathan, that we have been discussing already, He always warns before He brings a final judgment.
Nathan Jones: This is a global warning by God, saying, “Look up, I’m coming back soon.” So, that begs the question how are you responding to that? Are you looking at the signs of the times that show that Jesus Christ is returning soon? And if so, why not? You should look at the signs of the times because the Lord wants you to know that He is coming back. And when He comes back to take the Church up to Heaven to be with Him in an event called the Rapture, then the Tribulation happens. So, folks, we are not in the Tribulation.
Tim Moore: No, we are not. And this is not the end of the world. But hear us clearly, that time is coming. And your opportunity for accepting Jesus Christ will come to an end at some point. Folks, whether or not this pestilence, or the truck speeding down the road and crossing over the center line, or any other of a host of reasons are what brings you to the end of this life, you will die, unless the Lord comes and you are raptured up with the rest of us who are part of the Church. And so, instead of being fearful of that event, I hope that it will motivate you to consider, even right now, turning to the Lord Jesus Christ, accepting Him, repenting, and being assured of your eternal life. And with that great hope, and blessed hope, we bid you a blessing this day, and Godspeed.
Tim Moore: Well, folks, that’s our program for today. We hope it has been a blessing to you, and we hope also, Lord willing, that you will be back with us next week. Until then, this is Tim Moore speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near.”