David Reagan - The Tragedy of Abortion
What should be a Christian’s stance regarding abortion? Should we stand up and speak out strongly against it? Should we agree that a woman has the right to do whatever she pleases with what is in her womb? Or should we just remain silent and avoid getting involved in such a hot button issue? And does it really matter regarding the future of our society? Stay tuned.
Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy! I have two colleagues in the studio with me today, the one on the far end there is Nathan Jones, our Internet Evangelist, and next to me is Tim Moore, our Associate Evangelist.
We’re going to discuss one of the hottest issues in American society today, namely, abortion on demand. And we are going to discuss it from a biblical viewpoint, and not a political one.
I’d like to begin by showing you a short video clip of former Arkansas Governor, Mike Huckabee, speaking out on this issue. Keep in mind that Huckabee was a Southern Baptist pastor before he entered politics in 1992.
The powerful statement by Huckabee that you are about to view was prompted by a vote in the United States Senate in February of this year when the Senate refused to consider a bill that would have prevented doctors from killing babies who survive abortions. In short, it was a bill to prevent infanticide.
Here now is what Mike Huckabee had to say:
Mike Huckabee: The issue that has the potential, the greatest impact, not just politically but culturally and morally is the failure of the US Senate to pass a bill by Senator Ben Sass of Nebraska that simply said that if a baby survived an attempted abortion and was born alive, the doctor present would render aid, and try to save the baby’s life. That bill failed. Let that sink in. People elected to make our laws, refuse to pass a law that would have required treating a living, breathing baby, with at least the same respect that we demand of treating a cat, a dog, or a sea turtle. And one of the senators who voted against it said, “It wasn’t good for women’s reproductive health.” That’s a lie, because when the baby is born the woman has already reproduced. And there is nothing healthy about killing the baby. And the woman is no longer even physically connected to the baby. So, why do I say that this was the most important issue? Because if we as a country, and a culture, cannot and will not try to save a crying baby that has survived one attempt to kill it, and then we allow the attending doctor to kill it instead of save it. Then frankly none of these other issues really matter, because we won’t have to wait the 12 years the radical greenies say we have before we become human toast because of global warming. You see I believe God may pull the plug on us Himself. And as it was in the time of Noah, He may just simply say, “That’s enough.” I mean, who could blame Him? And by the way when God has enough of this, His version of a global warming ain’t going to be pretty.
Dr. Reagan: All I can say is, wow! We need more Christians speaking out like that. Keep in mind folks that since the Supreme Court legalized abortion in 1973 we have killed 62 million babies in this nation. The blood of the innocent is on our hands. And yet, I find many Christians defending abortion by saying, that the Bible is silent about it. What about it fellas, is the Bible silent?
Tim Moore: Well, the Bible is most certainly not silent, and we cannot remain silent any longer. We’ll talk about several verses but I’ll point people to Deuteronomy where the Lord is speaking of the folks who lived in Canaan before the Jews came there says in chapter 12, verse 31, “You shall not behave thus toward the Lord your God, for every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.” In other words, sacrificing their children to some kind of false god. Today we call that god, or some people do choice. I can take you to Psalm 106, in verse 37-39 the Lord says this, “They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons and shed innocent blood. The blood of their sons and their daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; and the land was polluted with the blood. Thus, they became unclean in their practices, and they played the harlot in their deeds.” That’s what we have done now for far too many years.
Dr. Reagan: And that’s one of the reasons God destroyed those nations.
Tim Moore: Yes, it is.
Dr. Reagan: The blood of the innocent was crying out. And the god was Molech, and they would super heat this god, and he had his hands out. And they took they up, and put their babies in his hand, a live baby, and the baby would be burned to death in their presence.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: And we’re doing the same thing today in some of the techniques that we’re using for abortion that just burn the baby alive or take the baby half way out and stick a needle in its head and suck its brains out. People don’t like to talk about this, but we need to face up to the reality of it. What about you, Nathan, some verses from the Bible?
Nathan Jones: Well, the Bible is very explicit about the sanctity of life at all stages. Deuteronomy 30:19 says, “I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live.” The Lord talks repeatedly about being, knitting us fearfully and wonderfully in mother’s wounds. He condemns it throughout the Deuteronomic and Levitical Laws about what happens when a person kills a pregnant woman, that it’s not just one, but it is two that are dead. The Lord sees the baby as fully a human being, and something worth preserving and sanctified.
Tim Moore: Amen.
Dr. Reagan: I heard a person recently say, “You know the thing that gets me about people who are pro-choice is that they never finish the sentence.”
Nathan Jones: Choice to do what?
Dr. Reagan: What is the finish of the sentence? I’m pro-choice, I believe a mother has the right to murder her baby.
Nathan Jones: Right.
Dr. Reagan: Wow.
Tim Moore: And again, that choice has become the false god. Some people elevate that as a political mantra to the most important principle by which they are going to shape every other belief structure. And that is just unfathomable to me and to any who love the Scripture and the Word of God.
Dr. Reagan: I never thought this great nation would stray so far from the Word of God that it would legalize the killing of babies. You would think the womb would be the most, the safest place on planet earth. Today it is one of the most dangerous.
Tim Moore: Actually, in our country it is the most dangerous place for a child in this nation, is the womb.
Nathan Jones: And the Lord hates it. You read in Proverbs 6, “These six things the Lord hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him, a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood.” You can’t get more innocent than a baby in a womb.
Dr. Reagan: Boy. Well, often those who are pro-choice say, “It’s not fair to bring an unwanted baby into the world.” What about that?
Tim Moore: Well, it is not for us to decide who is wanted. God has knit every child together. The Scripture talks about Him knitting together prophets, and others in the mother’s womb. And, so, He has created that life. And although that baby may not be wanted by its mother or father biologically there are thousands of couples yearning to be able to adopt a child.
Dr. Reagan: There’s no such thing as an unwanted baby. There’s couples all over America today trying to find a baby to adopt. They have to go to foreign countries.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: They’ve had to close down the orphanages because they’ve killed so many babies.
Nathan Jones: And the worse, you’re hearing like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who is going out and saying, “Well, because of global warming we must not have children, or we must abort our children to prevent them from having to face a catastrophe.” I mean that’s just about as base as you can get.
Dr. Reagan: Well, what about rape victims?
Tim Moore: Well, rape victims we have a special sense of justice that needs to be meted out for those who commit a crime of rape. But let’s face it, that child is innocent in that whole process. And Scripture is very clear that a son or daughter should not be put to death for the sin of a father. And that is essentially what people are subscribing to if they say we should kill the baby as the victim of that rape. And no, the Bible is very clear about that.
Dr. Reagan: It is often a smokescreen argument in the fact that the statistics show that only 1% of those who are raped every conceive because probably because of the trauma of it.
Tim Moore: Many reasons that they might not conceive, but also it is a fraction of the number of abortions that are performed; most abortions are not due to that reason.
Dr. Reagan: Oh, yeah, right. Anything else on that, Nathan?
Nathan Jones: No, that is exactly what I was going to say, it’s very few.
Dr. Reagan: Now, what about protection for the mother’s life?
Nathan Jones: Well, it is just, we are a time period now where it is medically proven that it is never a threat to the mother’s life. You can go through C-sections. They can bring a baby out early, almost up to 21 weeks. There’s no medical condition today as far as I’ve read where a doctor says that a baby will threaten the life of the mother unless it’s aborted.
Tim Moore: The only case is an ectopic pregnancy where the baby is conceived and implants within the fallopian tube or other parts that can become threatening. But there are ways that is usually taken care of. What we are talking about is babies who are fully viable and will come to term and will be born. And so, we have to be very clear, we have medical technology that is able to see inside the womb, and that proves once again that this child that is developing is fully human. It is not a clump of cells as is one of the lies of the abortion industry.
Nathan Jones: They can take babies out now, do operations on them, and put them back in the mother. There is not a time period where the mother’s life is threatened.
Dr. Reagan: The former Surgeon General of the US, doctor C. Everett Koop who was a very devout Christian made this comments, “Protection of the life of a mother as an excuse for an abortion is a smokescreen. In my 36 years of pediatric surgery, I’ve never known of one instance where a child had to be aborted to save the mother’s life. The doctor will either induce labor or perform a caesarean section.” Okay, next question. What about a deformed or retarded child?
Tim Moore: Well, that touches on somethings we’ve addressed in Kentucky. I will tell you that the Lord says very clearly even those who are blind and lame, they are crafted to His purpose. The blind man famously spent his entire life being blind until Jesus Christ healed him. And He said, “You were blind so that the glory of God might be manifest through this very miracle.” We know people each and every one of us who have various conditions, but they are a special blessing of God in the lives of those around them. So, to claim that a child with a particular handicap should be aborted because of that, again, is a false screen, a smokescreen if you will for promoting an abomination.
Dr. Reagan: It all has to do with the lack of respect for the sanctity of life. And if you start saying, “Okay, we can abort children that had retardation, or children who have some sort of handicap that we have seen in the womb, we can–” Then where do you draw the line on this?
Tim Moore: Well, you don’t draw the line. There is a professor of Princeton, a professor of bioethics of all things who has advocated for years infanticide up to maybe age 7, maybe age 10.
Dr. Reagan: The governor of Virginia recently suggested that we should give the parents a period of about two weeks to decide whether or not they want to keep the child.
Tim Moore: And by their logic you could actually begin eliminating people in full adulthood who are handicapped, or the elderly, or anyone.
Dr. Reagan: I’ve always said if you can, if children, if parents can pay a doctor to kill their children, the time will come when children will pay the doctor to kill their parents.
Tim Moore: And it’s here.
Dr. Reagan: It’s here. There are states that have passed assisted suicide.
Tim Moore: And there are countries that are practicing that currently.
Dr. Reagan: Euthanasia.
Nathan Jones: I was born in 1973, the year of Roe vs. Wade, and I’ve seen my generation almost half wiped out over the last 40 years.
Tim Moore: Yes, you have.
Nathan Jones: That I have people alive it’s almost a miracle that they’re alive.
Dr. Reagan: What about a woman’s right to privacy? Often the argument is it is just a bunch of white men who make all these decisions about whether a baby is supposed to live or die, the woman should be allowed to make that decision.
Tim Moore: Well, all those wrongly attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes a famous old statement was, “You have the right to swing your arm, but that right ends just at the tip of my nose.” And so, a woman has a right to privacy, as do we all until it impinges on another individuals right. And the right to life is basic. How horrible is it to even think that a mother would be lied to and deceived into believing that she should embrace this false god of choice to kill her own child?
Dr. Reagan: The interesting thing to me too is a former constitutional scholar is that the Supreme Court when they made the decision of Roe vs. Wade found something that nobody had ever seen in the Constitution, a penumbra, a shadow, that indicated a right of privacy that is not even in the Constitution.
Tim Moore: No, it was not meant to be.
Dr. Reagan: And speaking of Roe vs. Wade I understand that you had the opportunity to actually meet the lady Jane Roe and have a conversation with her. Is that right?
Tim Moore: I certainly did.
Dr. Reagan: Well, what we are going to do is we are going to take pause here for just a minute, and when we come back, we are going to let you tell us about your conversation with her.
Tim Moore: I’d be delighted.
Nathan Jones: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our discussion of the evil of abortion. Tim, you got to meet the Roe vs. Wade, you met Roe. Can you tell us the story of Roe?
Tim Moore: I sure can. Well, Jane Roe, as she was known in court documents was actually Norma McCorvey.
Nathan Jones: Okay.
Tim Moore: She was a young lady from Texas who actually been married previously, divorced. She had a tragic childhood. She was abused, sexually abused very frequently within the home she was living. She had had two children, given them both up for adoption, she was pregnant with a third and really didn’t want to carry the child to term, so she sought an abortion. As various lawyers were looking for a case that they could use as a vehicle to go to the Supreme Court they found her and decided to use her case. What’s ironic is after she signed the paperwork agreeing to be the person behind the case, they never used her, or talked to her again. As a matter of fact, they cast her aside.
Dr. Reagan: They used her alright.
Tim Moore: They used her alright, she never even went to court. In the end she had the baby because the court case drug on for a period of years, and the baby was given for adoption. She was dejected, and actually turned to the very industry that had used her up. And she began working for the abortion industry counseling young woman, lying to them she knew, to come and have abortions themselves. She became a lesbian and lived a totally degenerate lifestyle. Later she was brought back into the public eye with a famous lawyer, a feminist lawyer who decided to use her yet again. And Norma realized at some point that she was being used. But as she worked at an abortion clinic here in Texas hoping to convince other young women to abort their children, she kept being confronted by people who would show up at her clinic to pray. And one little girl, 8-years-old by the name of Emily Mackey finally cracked through her hardened heart. Everyday this young girl would say, “Miss Norma, God loves you and so do I.”
Nathan Jones: Wow.
Dr. Reagan: Wow.
Tim Moore: And that’s what finally broke through Norma’s cold hard heart. That is here description, not mine. And she turned her life over to Jesus Christ. Everything changed. It was a radical change of life. It was God’s fulfillment of His promise to make all things new, and He made Norma’s life new again. And she became a strong advocate for life. She went all over the country, and that’s how I met her. She came to a dinner in Kentucky, for the Kentucky Doctors for Life, and I had the privilege of sitting next to her all evening, hearing her personal testimony and hearing her tell about her love for Jesus Christ. She said as she described to me, “I love the Lord with all my heart and soul. And it is beyond my comprehension that He could take someone like me who was a hippy, and a drug addict, and a fornicator, and all the other stuff that I did and forgive me. It was so hard for me to conceive that the Lord had forgiven me especially after so many children had been killed.” And again, by her own advocacy. “But He has forgiven me and restored me.” What a tremendous testimony of God’s graciousness, and His willingness, His eagerness to forgive those who will turn to Him.”
Dr. Reagan: Tim, I imagine there might be some women watching this program who have had abortions and maybe heavy with the feeling of guilt or shame. What would you say to them?
Tim Moore: Well, that is something that I learned even in my years in the legislature. One of the most important things we can do is tell women, tell the men who have fathered these children and often times encouraged, or sometimes tragically demanded that their girlfriend or wife get an abortion that God’s forgiveness is for all. There is no one who is beyond the reach of God’s love, mercy, and forgiveness. All they have to do is repent of their sins, in other words turn back, and again accept that offer of salvation through Jesus Christ, and His blood covers all sins. So, that is the greatest message to those who have been deceived by this industry of death we call the abortion industry.
Dr. Reagan: I know that in this year’s session of the legislature in Kentucky that you all passed some significant legislation. How about filling us in on that?
Tim Moore: Alright, we had four pieces of legislation sponsored by our pro-life caucus, I’ve had the privilege of chairing, we started that just over a year ago. We had a bill dealing with discrimination, House Bill 5; children who would be aborted specifically because of a handicap, or because of their own race, or genetic, or gender background. And so, we provided protection for that. House Bill 148 ironically, we wanted to be House Bill 139 dealing with Psalm 139 and the way the Lord fearfully, and wonderfully makes us. But Bill 148 which was a trigger bill that when Roe was overturned Kentucky will immediately revert back to be being pro-life in our laws and in our legal system. Senate bills, we had a Heartbeat Bill saying that once a baby’s heartbeat is detectable that that child cannot be aborted. Abby Johnson of the movie, “Unplanned” came and testified very powerfully on behalf of that bill. And finally, we had Senate Bill 50 dealing with chemical abortions and requiring the abortionist to make sure that they maintain records. On whole, we made more progress on the pro-life effort this year, than ever before in Kentucky.
Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to our discussion of the evil of abortion. Fellas, let’s talk just a moment about some things that you mentioned a few moments ago about the battle lines that are being draw in this nation. You mentioned your state prepared for the overturn of Roe vs. Wade by saying we’re going to be a state without abortion. But many others are passing the same legislation saying we’re going to have state protected abortions. Talk about the battle lines here.
Tim Moore: Well, tragically even in 1973 for instance New York was one of the most liberal states, the most pro-abortion states at that time, and in recent months their governor and their legislature has doubled down to say, “We’re going to be even more embracing of the culture of death.” And they are gleefully rejoicing over the passage of a law that says, “If Roe vs. Wade is overturned, we’ll have unlimited abortion all the way up to the point of infanticide.”
Dr. Reagan: In fact, let me just comment on that for a moment.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: In the last issue of our magazine you had an article about abortion. And in that article, you had two powerful photographs, and one of them showed guards at Auschwitz rejoicing over the work that they were doing there in killing Jews, and the other picture showed the governor of New York and legislators standing around him rejoicing over the signing of a bill to kill babies.
Tim Moore: And I’ve had people push back and say, “Well, there is no comparison.” Well, why not?
Dr. Reagan: Why not?
Tim Moore: The dehumanization of human beings, whether they are Jews in the Holocaust, whether they are folks who are enslaved, even in this nation tragically in our own past, and now whether it is unborn children. It is the dehumanization of people created in the image of God. And it’s the same thing in terms of the moral ramification.
Dr. Reagan: In fact the other day it suddenly occurred to me that the so-called progressives in this nation who are going around and destroying all of the statues that have to do with the Confederacy, and even now trying to get rid of statues of George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson because they said, “Well, they were all slave owners.” And they are so pious, and they are so moralistic about all this, and these very people who are demanding that we do away with all of this because they were slave owners, turn around and say, “Let’s kill babies.”
Tim Moore: Exactly, so.
Dr. Reagan: Now, which is worse slavery or killing babies? I mean come on.
Tim Moore: Well, both of them fall short of the glory of God. And obviously we are advocating for the defense of life created in the image of God. And so, it is a clear moral distinction. But those battle lines are being drawn. And there was a time in our nation where I saw the trends in the positive direction, even the movies coming out of Hollywood were tending to be pro-life for a time. Right now, that trend seems to be swaying, and some states are obviously staking ground, some individuals. Hollywood itself has pulled back. You all know famously that in recent weeks and months a movie called, “Unplanned” the story of Abby Johnson and her conversion while working at an abortion clinic has gotten nationwide notoriety, in spite of the fact that most media outlets will not advertise it. And people in the Hollywood elite are rejecting it because they don’t like its message, but it is definitely sparking interest among the population of the country. And more and more young people are coming to be pro-life.
Nathan Jones: Yes, I notice that. My children’s generation, Generation Z seems to be more pro-life than their more pro-choice parents and grandparents.
Tim Moore: Yes. Tragically I’ve even heard of Conservative Christian make the statement, “Well, at least if this baby is aborted, he’ll go to Heaven. And if they are born, they might go to Hell.” And I think well, with that logic you could carry on all sorts of horrors killing children in the cribs, so to speak to let them go to Heaven. No, that’s not–
Nathan Jones: That’s a warping of Scripture.
Tim Moore: That’s an abomination. It’s a warping of Scripture.
Dr. Reagan: What can the average viewer who is sitting there watching this program, what can they do about this issue? What are some things, practical things they can do?
Tim Moore: Well, I will tell you that I believe people should advocate. They should contact their legislature. They should contact their pastor and say, “Preach on this.” They should write letters to the editor advocating for life.
Dr. Reagan: Do letters to legislatures have any meaning though?
Tim Moore: They do.
Dr. Reagan: You’re a legislature, tell us about it.
Tim Moore: Yes, sir. Well, the most powerful way is to say, “I want to come and meet with you in person, and I’ll be very respectful of your time because I know you’re busy. But I want to share with you why this is so important, or why we as a group of people believe this is important.” So, advocate. The next thing I would tell all Christians to do is to become involved by supporting crisis pregnancy centers.
Dr. Reagan: Yes.
Tim Moore: There are young men and women who are in crisis situations, and they don’t know where to turn.
Dr. Reagan: Yes.
Tim Moore: Their family circumstances, like Norma McCorvey is totally unsupportive, she was rejected and outcast by her own family. They don’t have anywhere else to turn. They should be able to turn to the church and to believers. And so, whether it is through your church, through crisis pregnancy centers, offer opportunities for young couples, young mothers to choose life.
Dr. Reagan: So, people can pray. And they should pray.
Tim Moore: Yes, most definitely.
Dr. Reagan: But they should go beyond that in terms of writing letters to the editors. Writing letters to the politicians. Urging their pastors to speak on this because the average pastor often is just, doesn’t want to deal with these issues because he’s afraid he’s going to hurt somebody’s feelings. Those are some of the things that people can do. Including going to where abortion clinics are and demonstrating there as this little girl did who told McCorvey.
Nathan Jones: Yeah.
Tim Moore: Exactly. In a loving way.
Dr. Reagan: Yes, in a loving way.
Tim Moore: Telling her God loves you, and so do I. Not screaming you know hate filled or what is perceived as hate but sharing love. And that is the last thing I would encourage all believers to do. Is make sure that we share the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is now forgiveness for anyone who would come to Him. And those who have come and accepted Jesus as their Savior, there is now no condemnation. So, that guilt you talked about earlier can be totally evaporated. Norma McCorvey didn’t live a life reeked with guilt, she knew she had been changed and made anew by Jesus Christ. And so that is a message that we can share with everyone, men and women. And in most churches, there are people who tragically have made this wrong choice in their past, and yet know that they can be forgiven.
Dr. Reagan: Well, I want to end this program on a very positive note.
Tim Moore: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: We’ve already mentioned this once, but I want to mention it again. Nathan, again, there may be women watching who feel guilt or shame about having an abortion, or a man who insisted that his girlfriend have one. Is there any hope for them?
Nathan Jones: Oh, absolutely there is hope. I mean if there wasn’t hope for us as sinners through Jesus Christ, we are all going to Hell. Abortion is a sin like any other: lying, cheating, stealing. I mean there are stronger ramifications to it, it is murder after all, let’s call it what it is. But Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. Matter of fact when you accept Jesus Christ, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says that you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified. You just brought up Romans 8:1 which is, “Therefore there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.” So, that means if you have asked Jesus to be your Savior, if you’ve prayed in your heart, “Dear Jesus, Please forgive me of my sins. Please forgive me of my abortion and be my Lord and Savior.” The Lord promises to do just that. Your sins will be forgiven, your guilt will be gone. And you will inherit the promises of eternal life with God. You now have a testimony. Jesus Christ has healed you. Go share that with others. There are woman suffering, contemplating abortions now, use your testimony to help them make the right decision and choose life.
Dr. Reagan: Well, folks, that’s our program for this week. I hope it’s been a blessing to you, and I hope the Lord willing you’ll be back with us next week. Until then this is, Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near.”