David Reagan - The Fate of Islam, Part 2
Is it true, as even some Christians are now claiming, that Islam is a legitimate road to God? In other words, should Islam be considered equally valid with Christianity? And what about the Quran? Is it the true word of God, as Muslims claim? And one other question: Is it possible to reach Muslims with the Gospel, and, if so, how? Stay tuned.
Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy! Last week, I introduced you to a great presentation about Islam that was made by my colleague, Nathan Jones, at one of our recent conferences. I showed you video clips containing what he had to say about the growth of Islam, the goals of Islam and the fate of Islam.
If you missed that program, you can find it posted on our website at lamblion.com, where all our television programs can be viewed on demand free of charge.
This week, I have Nathan here in the studio with me, and I am going to ask him a series of questions that he discusses in his presentation, but which we did not cover last week. Incidentally, his entire 55 minute presentation is contained in this video album titled, The Fate of Islam. We will tell you later how you can get a copy of it. Nathan, let’s get right into this immediately. And let me just start off by asking you a very crucial question: Is Islam a legitimate road to God?
Nathan Jones: Absolutely, not. And this is the reason why. Let me read you just a few verses about what the Bible says is the legitimate road to God. Let’s start with John 14:6, “Jesus answered, ‘I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, nobody comes to the Father except by Me.'” He said again in Romans, or Paul did in Romans 8:1, “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because through Christ Jesus, the law of the Spirit of Life set me free from the law of sin and death.” We can go on, Romans 10:9, “That if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved.”
Dr. Reagan: But, Nathan there is a problem with that. From the viewpoint of the society that we live in today you sound so intolerant.
Nathan Jones: It does sound intolerant. The Bible has a description of what the one and only way to get to God is, through the Father through Jesus Christ the Son. Believing Him as the Son of God and the Savior of our sins. The Bible goes on 1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God and one Mediator between God and the man Christ Jesus.” 1 John 5:5, “Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” I could go on and on with verse, after verse, after verse, but the Bible teaches that the one and only way to get to the Father is through the Son Jesus Christ. And Muslims, Islam does not teach that Jesus in the Son of God, or the Christ.
Dr. Reagan: What do they teach about Jesus?
Nathan Jones: They don’t believe that Jesus is the Son of God but He is an esteemed man. In other words to believe in a Trinity like we do, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to them is what they call “shirk” it is idolatry. Islam believes in a monotheism there is one God who is Allah, and his prophet is Mohammed. So, to get to Heaven or Paradise as Muslims calls it you have to work your way through it. There is actually quite a series of works that you have to go through to reach paradise.
Dr. Reagan: But, when Muslims speak to Christians they always start out by talking about how they believe in Jesus and trying to build some rapport with their Christian audience. Yes, we believe in Jesus. We honor Jesus, and so forth. But it is not the Jesus of the Bible.
Nathan Jones: Not at all. Not at all. It is a preconceived Jesus without the power and divinity. Matter of fact when Jesus died on the cross Muslims will teach that Judas Iscariot took Jesus’ place and died on the cross, so they deny the crucifixion of Christ, and they deny the resurrection of Christ. So, there view of the Savior of salvation as the Bible says the only way to get to Heaven is through Jesus Christ, they flat out deny. And then they offer up a works based salvation to get to Paradise. So, they are two completely, totally different things. Teaching two completely different truths.
Dr. Reagan: The last time I was in Israel I noticed when we got to Nazareth and we started up the hill there to the magnificent Church of the Annunciation where supposedly Gabriel spoke to Mary, traditional site. That as you started up that hill there was a billboard that had been put up by the Muslims.
Nathan Jones: I’ve seen that, yeah.
Dr. Reagan: So, that every Christian pilgrim would see it. And it said, “Anyone who says that Jesus is the Son of God is a liar, and going to Hell.” And so forth and so on. They just blatantly deny who He is.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, it is right outside the church.
Dr. Reagan: Yeah, right outside the church.
Nathan Jones: Right outside the church. Well, Muslims believe in a quiet a number of works to get to Paradise. And this is what they teach: First you have to say what is the Creed or the Shahada which is: There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet. That is kind of like when we go up and we do the prayer to accept salvation. Muslims have their own prayer. But when you look at the Shahada there is no god by Allah, doesn’t say Jehovah or Yahweh from the Bible. Allah who was the moon god of the Arabs of the time period. And Mohammad is his prophet. So, they deny even Jesus’ preeminence in the Trinity. After that you have to do prayers five times a day you have to pray as a Muslim. You have to get on your knees and pray towards Mecca. Again a work’s based salvation. You also have to give alms giving which is called “zakat”; it is one-twentieth of your income and it goes to help widows and orphans. But giving money is required for salvation. There is fasting called “sawm” which we of course know Ramadan the ninth month of the Islamic calendar where they don’t eat or they abstain also from smoking and sex and all, all day long. It is a fasting that is a work to prove yourself worthy to Allah. They also have the pilgrimage which is called “the hajj” it is where you have to travel at least once in life to Mecca and go around the Kaaba stone, and if you can’t do it then you send somebody in your place. And then there is an unspoken work and that is jihad, or the struggle, or to strive against the infidel. So for Muslims it is an extremely works based salvation, they have to do all those things.
Dr. Reagan: But my understanding of Islam is that even if you do all of those things you still have no assurance of salvation.
Nathan Jones: Absolutely. There is no eternal security.
Dr. Reagan: And no concept that you–I mean even Mohammed said he didn’t know if he was saved or not.
Nathan Jones: Right. Right.
Dr. Reagan: And the only way you can be certain that you are saved in Islam, I mean absolutely certain is what?
Nathan Jones: Jihad. You have to die fighting the infidel.
Dr. Reagan: Yeah. Otherwise you just don’t know.
Nathan Jones: Yes.
Dr. Reagan: Well, what about the god of Islam? You know we have very liberal Christians in America today who argue that the god of Islam has to be the same god of Judaism, and Christianity because we are monotheistic religions. So if we all believe in one god, we must all believe in the same god.
Nathan Jones: You know I think in my experience I find that people who say that the God of the Bible and the god of Islam, and the gods of Hinduism and all that, really tend to not be religious at all, they are irreligious. They assume that they all offer some kind of truth, and therefore all religions are going towards Heaven; even though all these different religious teach something totally different. For instance when it comes to Allah, Allah is a monotheism he is a one god, there is no Holy Spirit, there is no Son. And like I said earlier if you even suggest that that is idolatry to a Muslim. He is also very distant and unknowable.
Dr. Reagan: Very aloof.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, he is aloof. He doesn’t connect with his people whatsoever.
Dr. Reagan: He’s never mentioned in the Quran for example as god of love.
Nathan Jones: No, there is no love to him. He expects obedience because between a Muslim, which means one who submits and Allah, it’s a master-slave relationship. There is no father-son relationship like in Christianity whatsoever. He reveals his will but he never reveals himself. He’s feared by his followers. And he is also the creator of evil; he’s not all good, but he’s both good and evil. Now, I don’t know about you but that does not sound like the God of the Bible whatsoever.
Dr. Reagan: Not at all. And you know when I look at liberal Christians and the old mainline Protestant denominations I’m talking about primarily those super liberal Christians I find that their attitude toward Muslims is the same as their attitude toward Jews; leave them alone, do not violate their culture by sharing the Gospel with them because they have their own road to God. And to me what that means is we are going to love them right into Hell.
Nathan Jones: Right. Right.
Dr. Reagan: And they have that same view toward the Jewish people it is called Dual Covenant Theology; they argue that we have our covenant, they have their covenant they can work their way to Heaven through following the Law of Moses.
Nathan Jones: Well, when the greatest ethic in this day in age is tolerance then of course that is how we end up with that.
Part 2
Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to my discussion with my colleague, Nathan Jones about the nature of Islam. Nathan, how about comparing for us the fundamental beliefs of Islam as compared with Christianity.
Nathan Jones: Well, certainly. One of the blessings of being Web Minister here is I get to speak to Muslims all over the world that either want to ask questions or debate about Islam. And when you start quoting from the Bible the very first thing they do is, “Well, wait a minute, the Bible is corrupted.” Now, the Bible to them was corrupted by the Christians and the Jews. So, what we believe today isn’t what was originally written. And that totally goes against archaeology. For instance the Dead Sea Scrolls which show for 2,000 years we’ve had the same translated Bible. The fact that 86,000 references from the early Church Father’s to New Testament verses. What is it? 5,300 New Testament manuscripts that exist out there from the 1st and 2nd Centuries. We have a plethora of information that proves that the Bible is the Word of God and it hasn’t been corrupted.
Dr. Reagan: If you know anything about how the scribes did that. I mean they were so careful. If there was one mistake the page was thrown away. They counted the number of lines down, they counted the number of characters over. It was very, very carefully done.
Nathan Jones: It was. Now of course another big difference between Islam and Christianity is their belief that Allah is one, he is not a Trinity as Christians believe.
Dr. Reagan: They think we do not believe in monotheism.
Nathan Jones: Oh, yeah, they think we are polytheists like the Romans used to think of Christians. Another thing too is their Creation story is different. They believe that humanity was created out of a blood clot and not from the image of God out of the dust. Another thing they teach too is we’re in the Bible it is very clear that we are born in sin, we have a sin nature. But they do not teach that; they teach that man is inherently good and then strays along the way. So, it is a totally different view of the sin nature. They believe in salvation through works; where we believe in salvation through–by faith through grace–excuse me by grace through faith. Again their view of Jesus that He was just a man who died. He plays a role in end time eschatology, but He isn’t the Son of God, they definitely believe that. They also have different views about the resurrections and judgments. You’ve written repeatedly about that. That their views of end times are vastly different than our views.
Dr. Reagan: Yes. Well, I think that is a good survey you just gave. And I think you could really sum it up the way our good friend at First Baptist Church in Dallas–
Nathan Jones: Robert Jeffress, yeah.
Dr. Reagan: –Robert Jeffress does it and he says, “Every other religion in the world is spelled do D-O, only Christianity is spelled D-O-N-E.” It is all done. It was done by Jesus on the cross. All we’ve got to do is reach out in faith and receive that. But every other religion you’ve got to work your way to Heaven, and you never know whether you’ve got it or not.
Nathan Jones: Absolutely.
Dr. Reagan: Well, what about the Quran and the Bible, are they kind of similar?
Nathan Jones: They are night and day. Now, the origin of the Quran is that Mohammad at 40 years old being inflicted by gins or spirits went to a cave and he was going to kill himself. He was going to commit suicide. And that’s where he claims the angel Gabriel came onto him and gave him these words. Now, he was illiterate; he couldn’t write or anything. So, he would go into these caves and he would go into these trances and he’d start automatic writing on scraps of paper, or he’d bring men, imams with him and they would write down what he said. And over the years it was collected into what is called the Quran; which means the recitation. It took 23 years to write. And it was all the different things that he said. Now you and I have read the Quran and it reads like the rantings of a madman.
Dr. Reagan: Nothing compared to the Bible where you have stories. The Bible is based on history and historical stories that you can follow. You get the Quran and it is this, and that, and this, and it just it is very difficult to follow. It is like the rantings of a madman.
Nathan Jones: Yeah, because that is what it was, it was the rantings of a madman. It is about as long as the New Testament so it is not as thick as the Bible at all. It is only about as long as the New Testament. It took many years to compile, by the 7th Century is about when it was finally compiled. Now, Muslims will claim that it is inerrant, that it is perfect even though it went through–
Dr. Reagan: That is very interesting because there is a big difference in the Quran and the Bible in the sense of the word abrogation. In other words Muslim scholars say that a later revelation abrogates an earlier revelation if they conflict with each other. And it is very difficult to know which are the early ones, and which are the later ones when you read the Quran because they are all mixed up. But the scholars say they know. So when–for example Muslims come and speak to Christians they read all the verses that were early that talked about, honor the Christians, honor the Jews, we are people of the book and so forth. But when they rejected the teachings of Mohammad then he turned against them and began to say, “Kill them.” And that abrogates the earlier. But they don’t tell you that.
Nathan Jones: No they don’t. Oh, look its peaceful. Well, wait a minute no they are following the later verses which say, “Kill all the Jews.”
Dr. Reagan: Yeah. So, when they want to get along with you they quote the scriptures that say we are brothers. But then later on when they get into power, what happens? Suddenly it all the ones about you must submit. There can be no freedom of any other religion. And we’ll kill you if you don’t.
Nathan Jones: Oh, right. And Mohammad was a crook. He stole the Torah. He stole the New Testament. He even went to Persian Zoroastrianism and took it, and then he blended it all in.
Dr. Reagan: He stole wives.
Nathan Jones: He stole wives. He had 15 of them including a 9 year old girl.
Dr. Reagan: Yeah, and one of them I think was the wife of his son-in-law or something of that nature.
Nathan Jones: Zaynab. Matter of fact tired of her family getting killed she actually poisoned Mohammad and on top of pneumonia that is what killed him.
Dr. Reagan: Yeah. I have always found that in talking with a Muslim one of the main things that draws them to the truth is to talk about the love of God, and the love of Jesus Christ.
Nathan Jones: Absolutely.
Dr. Reagan: I remember when Mark Gabriel I interviewed him and he said, “You know we have a story in the Quran,” or maybe it is the Hadith, “that is exactly like the one in the New Testament where they bring the woman caught in adultery and Jesus says, ‘Let him who is without sin throw the first stone,” and tells her to go and sin no more.” He said, “No, Mohammad said, ‘Bring her back when her baby has been weaned.’ And she brought him back. He put her down in the ground with her head sticking out and said, ‘Now stone her to death in front of her child.'” And he said, “We just didn’t know anything about the love of God.” And when they experience that they move to Christianity.
Nathan Jones: That’s because they have to read the Quran in Arabic.
Dr. Reagan: Yes. Yes, that’s true. Well, that is our time in this segment. We’ll be back in just a moment with another segment.
Part 3
Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to my discussion about Islam with my colleague, Nathan Jones. Nathan, is it possible to reach Muslims with the Gospel? And if so how?
Nathan Jones: Oh, absolutely Dr. Reagan. That is actually how I end my presentation, The Fate of Islam. Folks, this is how you reach a Muslim for Christ.
Nathan Jones: Before we go on, I have to admit one thing. And I’m going to admit it right here, because I’m teaching you the truth about Islam and its role in the end times, society is going to label me a hater. To them I’m a card-carrying Islamophobe, which is a terrible thing to be called in this PC world nowadays. But, bear with me here, for in part they are correct. I do indeed hate Islam. Do you know why I hate Islam? Not the people naturally, but the system. I hate what Islam does to their people. It enslaves over a billion people to a religion that tells them they must kill themselves in order to be assured of going to Heaven.
I hate that Satan rules Islam, and so far he’s gotten away with all the murders and atrocities Islam has committed in vilifying the name of God. I hate Islam because of all the Christians that have been murdered in the name of Allah. How God’s magnificent and holy name has been tarnished.
This is what Islam does to a nation it subjugates its people and it plunges the world back into the Dark Ages. Islam has sent people to Hell by the billions. So yes, I hate Islam because I hate Satan. But, as you know, we Christians we’re called to hate evil and to love good. So, it’s okay to be a hater of Islam because it kills people, and for all of eternity.
Now as terrible as Islam is, it also presents the Church with the greatest opportunity for evangelism in world history, if you know how to evangelize the Muslim.
One of the blessings at our ministry is that we get to talk to people all over the world. I have people write to me through various venues such as email and social networks. I’ve encountered so many Muslims seeking to understand God, or trying to convert me to Islam which just opens the door for sharing the Gospel with them. From these experiences, I’m going to share with you six different ways you can reach a Muslim for Christ.
#1: The Bible is okay to read. Sura 5:46-47 and 68 says that Mohammad gave the okay, thumbs up, for Muslims to read the Bible. If you give anyone the Word of God, and they read it, the Holy Spirit speaks through Scriptures.
As an example of this, I’ll share the real life testimony of an ex-Muslim girl from Iran who calls herself Fars.
“I left Islam for several reasons. Originally because I was sent by my grandmother to a mullah to learn Islamic prayer. I was taught this in Arabic, which as a Persian, I didn’t understand one word of it. When I asked this mullah what the heck it meant and what I was saying, he said it wasn’t important that I know, just that I say it with all my heart. Say what with all my heart? He then complained to my grandmother that I was too questioning for a girl and should be talked to. Whatever! I finally bought an English translation of the Quran; I was appalled. No wonder the Mullah didn’t want me to know what it all meant. When I read some of the passages in English to my mother she was shocked with disbelief. ‘That can’t be right!’ She couldn’t believe it and she had been a Muslim all her life and never knew exactly what the Quran said. She and my sister have both also left Islam. That is the tragic legacy especially in Iran which had Islam forced on it by Arabs. That is why educated college students are all up in arms because they are finally beginning to understand what Islam really means and says.”
Now once Fars could read the Bible in her own language, she gave her life to Christ. So, it’s okay for a Muslim to read the Bible, and you can tell them that.
#2: The Life of Christ. When you hold up the life of Mohammed: a killer, a murderer, a wife stealer, a child molester, a liar and put it up against Jesus Christ who is sinless, and loving, and holy, and died for us the Muslim is shocked. They can’t believe the differences. The Jesus taught in the Quran isn’t that Jesus at all. Of course, anyone is attracted to someone who lays their life down for them. Tell them what Jesus did for them by dying for their sins.
The following is a real testimony of a man from Morocco named Ibn Zakaria who learned this truth.
“I left Islam because I didn’t find peace with it. Since my childhood, I had a lot of questions in my mind about Human Rights in Islam, women rights, Eternal life and about the life of Mohammed. I started looking for answers, by reading the Bible and comparing the life of Mohammed to that of the Lord Jesus Christ. I found myself far from Islam and enlightened by the Gospel and the truth of the Word of God.”
#3: The love of God. God is love, but for Muslims, they never know love from Allah whatsoever. They see these mullahs on TV who are angry and yelling all the time. It’s a religion of hate. A Muslim, like any person, wants to know love, and you can reach them by telling them about the love of God.
Abdel Masih of Egypt shared how he became saved when he encountered the love of God.
“I was born in Egypt to a Muslim family. I think in looking back that maybe my family was loving because it was liberal in its approach to Islam. It was very loving not because of Islam, but in spite of it. When I began to study I saw that the Quran was very filled with hate and not enough on love. Christianity seemed so much more familiar and the Sermon on the Mount is a teaching after my own heart. There is nothing like it in the Islamic literature.”
#4: The assurance of salvation. Mounif of Morocco wrote in his testimony about the lack of eternal security in Islam:
“My father was and still is an imam in a mosque. I had many questions about my place in Paradise, but there was no answer.”
Muslims have no assurance of salvation except for one thing, and that is to die a martyr. To kill infidels by your own death is the only assurance they have of salvation. Why do you think certain Muslims are willing to blow themselves up in the name of Allah? Martyrdom is the only way they be can assured of entering into Paradise.
You, instead, can assure them that through Jesus Christ, who died once and for all for their sins, they can have the assurance of living in Heaven forever with their loving Father.
#5: Grace. Islam is like wearing shackles to a Muslim. They feel it. They know it. But, when you teach them about the grace of God, that there’s nothing we can do to be saved, that God did it all for us, and that Jesus Christ paid for our sins on the cross, then they feel relieved. Maybe you can look back at the time when you got saved and you remember how it felt to have the weight of your sins and works lifted off of you? Well, a Muslim is looking for that weight to be lifted off of them as well.
Sinbad of India shared his experience casting off this weight:
“I had of course gone through the whole process of learning about Islam and the do’s and don’ts, and had always tried to practice it but always was struggling as if I was forever carrying a great load on my back, as if I was in a prison. After I left I felt as if I had just been released from prison.”
#6: A relationship with God. Learning one can have a personal relationship with God is one of the best ways to reach a Muslim for Christ. Christians enjoy a relationship with God, and not some distant unknowable being who could care less about them and wants their death to prove their faith, but a Heavenly Father who loves them and cares for them. The very Jesus that you and I accepted.
Cynthia from America shared about coming back to such a relationship:
“My fear of Allah became so intense that I hoped to get cancer and therefore be punished for my sins on earth instead of after death. I would scrub and cleanse my body in prayer so obsessively, that my hands became cracked and bloody. Still, I continued to believe in a religion that on the outside looked so moral and just. Then I did something that I told my parents and myself I would never do. I rented the movie “The Passion of The Christ.” I held back tears that threatened to fall from my eyes until the short scene in the movie when Mary Magdalene reverts back to the day when Jesus was the only person who would accept her and love her. I began to cry as I suddenly realized what my mother had been trying to tell me for all those years. Finally, I understood that God loved me and was not out to get me or to harm me. It was at that moment that I knew that Allah was not God. I felt the love and protection of God all around me. I was no longer scared to live and no longer scared to die. The world looked so beautiful and I couldn’t stop thanking God for saving me. It has only been two weeks since I was saved by Jesus Christ, and they have been the happiest two weeks of my life. Every day that I wake up I am so grateful that God never left my side during my seven year hiatus. I feel like He was just patiently waiting for my return. I now live my life with an inner peace and love for God that I cannot put into words. Thank you Jesus for never leaving me!”
There’s a lot of fear that Islam will soon take over the world. But, believers in Christ can find comfort knowing that what Islam means for evil, God is using now to produce good. And one day, Islam will be destroyed, Muslims will put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ by the multitudes, and all the world will finally know Jesus during His Kingdom. Until then, continue to be a witness, sharing the Good News of our mighty God and Savior and His great salvation. Thank you and God bless you!
Closing
Dr. Reagan: Thank you Nathan for a great presentation. Folks, Nathan’s presentation about Islam needs to be shared throughout Christendom. Please consider getting a copy to share with your Sunday School class, your home Bible study group or your entire church. Get a copy for you pastor, and pray that it will help him to better understand both the physical and spiritual dangers of Islam.
Well, that’s our program for this week, I hope it has been a blessing to you. And, the Lord willing, I hope you will be back with us again next week. Until then, this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries, saying, “Look up, be watchful, for our Redemption is drawing near.”