David Jeremiah - The Promise of Heaven Interview
Sheila Walsh: Let me ask you something. Have you ever had a quiet moment, maybe in the middle of a busy day or just lying awake at night, when you’ve wondered, is this really all there is? Maybe life feels full but something still feels missing. Maybe you’ve experienced loss or change or just the ache of growing older, and you’ve found yourself longing for something more. That longing, it’s not by chance and it’s not an accident. It is eternity calling. You see, the Bible doesn’t end in confusion or fear. It ends with a incredible vision, breathtaking vision, of the promise of heaven. Now, most of us believe in heaven, but even so, it often feels distant, abstract, like something we’ve heard about but never fully understood. Well, in just a moment, Dr. David Jeremiah will explain that the Bible has far more to say about heaven than most of us realize, not only where we’re going, but who we’ll see, and what we’ll do, and why a clear view of heaven changes how you and I live here today. So with that in mind, please help me welcome pastor, author, teacher, and my very dear friend, Dr. David Jeremiah.
Sheila Walsh: It is so lovely to be back here in one of your favorite places on the planet, New York City. You’ve spent so much of your ministry putting eternity in context, pointing each one of us towards eternity. Why is it now that heaven seems even more of an urgent message?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, you know, all of us look around and try to find meaning in the things that we experience every day. And let’s be honest, the things we’re experiencing every day aren’t so hot. The Bible says God has placed eternity in our hearts, which means there’s a space in our heart that only works if you put eternity there. And eternity is what we’re talking about. We’re talking about heaven. So I could give a lot of examples that I’ve read over the years of people who ascended the mountain of their accomplishment, only to get to the top and say, «Is that all there is»? Because we were never created to be fully satisfied in this world. God created us for heaven, and until heaven is a part of our life, we will never be at home.
Sheila Walsh: Why is it important that heaven’s not just a comfort to us, just knowing that’s where we’re going? How should that energize how we all live today?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, you know, if you know where you’re going and you know what you’re headed for and the goal that you have in your heart just gives you energy. And that’s true in life, but it’s also true when it comes to heaven. When you know what God has prepared for those who love him, it makes you want to live every day and honor him and be a good representative of his. And you know, my goal has always been to go to heaven and take as many people with me as I can.
Sheila Walsh: Amen, me too. So this is kind of a three-parter in a way. You say, well, you talk about heaven being a place, a person, and a promise. So let’s start with a place.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Sheila, that little outline comes from John 14:1 through 6, where we read, «In My Father’s house are many mansions; and if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there you may be also». So that promise begins with the fact that heaven is a real place. It’s not a figment of our imagination. It’s not a lofty place someplace in the Never Never Land. It is a real place, because real people are going to this real place. And if you’re going to a real place as a real person, those two fit together. And Jesus said, «I go to prepare,» not a dream, «I go to prepare a place for you». Heaven is a place.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, and heaven is a person.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Yes, if you want to go to heaven, you have to go through Jesus. John 14 says at the end of that very passage, «I am the way, the truth, and the life. And no one comes to the Father except through Me».
Sheila Walsh: Absolutely, absolutely, and finally, you say that heaven is a promise. What do you mean by that?
Dr. David Jeremiah: It is a promise from God that if we will put our trust in him, he will take us where he’s gone to prepare a place for us. He’s promising that. That’s not just if you get lucky, you’ll get there. No, it’s a place, it’s a person, and the plan is put your trust in Jesus Christ.
Sheila Walsh: For those in our audience who have lost someone who loved Jesus, what is the comfort of knowing that paradise is with Jesus?
Dr. David Jeremiah: When we lose somebody who dies, we have all these little phrases we use about where they are. They passed on, they went to the big sky, or whatever. But for Christians, we go to be with Jesus. That’s what happens. I have a whole chapter in this book called «With Jesus» because the New Testament is filled with terminology about being with Jesus. What goes on in heaven and the opportunity for us to serve the Lord, that’s one of the key phrases in the book of Revelation. We’ll be serving him and we’ll get to do things, when somebody said you’d be able to finish some projects you never could finish because you didn’t have time, and you will do it with excellence and perfection because you have no barriers. You’ll be able to work every day, and it will be such a joy to be involved in serving and worshiping the Lord.
Sheila Walsh: Stay tuned. We’ll be right back to continue discussing «The Promise of Heaven,» the new teaching series from Dr. David Jeremiah.
Sheila Walsh: Thank you for joining us. I’m Sheila Walsh here again to talk with Dr. David Jeremiah about his new series, «The Promise of Heaven». You talk about the Bema seat of Christ, and some people think that’s a place of punishment, but you say, no, no, it’s not a courtroom. It’s a celebration.
Dr. David Jeremiah: No, the Bible says if you’re in Christ Jesus, there is therefore now no condemnation. There’s no judgment. If you’re a Christian and you’ve been forgiven for your sin, you will never face your sin again. But the Bible says that when we get to heaven, we’re going to all give an account for our lives. We’ll come before what they call the Judgment Seat of Christ or the Bema seat. And the Bible says we will be judged on the basis of our works as Christians. Have we honestly and deliberately and determinedly served Jesus Christ? And, you know, I guess that always puts a little bit of fear in all of our hearts because sometimes I wonder, I’ll be honest with you, have I ever done anything totally out of a pure motivation to serve the Lord? Have you ever wondered that? But the Lord will help us sort that all out. And the Bible says we’ll stand before him and he will judge each one of us according to our works, and we’ll be eligible for five different crowns. Every one of us here is eligible for one of these crowns.
Sheila Walsh: How do we serve faithfully and keep it pure? You know, it’s not like, «Well, I’ll do this so that I’ll get a crown in heaven». How do we keep our hearts pure?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, I don’t think any Christian that I’ve ever met serves Jesus Christ just so they can get a crown. Or like I said in one of the places in the book, after you did something great for God, you say, «Boy, you owe me big time, God, for that one,» you know? You know, it’s not that way. It’s in the background, we know it’s there, we wanna serve the Lord and all, but we serve the Lord because we love him. And we serve him because we wanna honor him. The crowns and the judgment, that’s just a separate place that goes along to increase the motivation.
Sheila Walsh: What do we do with the crowns?
Dr. David Jeremiah: The Bible says that we don’t walk around heaven with our crowns comparing them to the crowns of other people. My crown is this way, yours is that way. The Bible says we will cast our crowns at the feet of Jesus in an act of worship.
Sheila Walsh: Beautiful, I love the way you write about worship in heaven, that it’s not some quiet thing. It’s thunderous. It’s glorious. How does an understanding of worship in heaven impact how each one of us worships today?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, you know what? Worship is a really special theme in the Bible. It’s one of my favorite themes. And in the book of Revelation, you see it in its absolute glorious climax. And there’ll be thousands upon thousands who gather together, and one of my favorite things about the worship in heaven is there’s a gradual growth in the volume. There’s seven different ways they worship. Every time you read it, there’s glory, then there’s glory and honor, and then there’s glory and honor and praise, then there’s glory and honor and praise, and you go through, there’s seven. It’s almost like you can feel the volume. Have you ever been in a church service where the choir sings or the congregation sings and you change keys and you go up to the next key and it gets louder and bigger and louder and bigger? When you get to heaven, you’re going to see the crescendo of worship like you have never seen it before.
Sheila Walsh: Gives me chills. One of the questions that people wrestle with and some people have asked is will we be like ourselves in heaven? Will our personalities, will my husband still tell bad dad jokes in heaven?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, you know, there’s pretty good evidence that not only will we be ourselves, but we will be recognizable by each other. And Jesus was certainly recognized by his disciples when he came. He was the same Jesus who they had been with. He went to the cross, he was buried, he came out after the Resurrection, and his disciples knew him. They tried to hold on to him. He had a touchable body. They ate with him. That brings a lot of joy to most people to know that you’re going to eat when you get to heaven. We’re going to be recognizable and we’re going to be our best selves.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, beautiful. So what about marriage in heaven?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, I’ll tell you the truth. I’m going to just be a little candid with you all. We did a list of questions, and that was number one. But here’s why they care about that, because Jesus once said, «You do err, not knowing the scriptures, that we shall be like the angels, neither marrying nor giving in marriage». Do you need anything more definite than that? And sometimes people say, «Well, if I’m not going to be married, I don’t want to go to heaven». Well, that’s… you just need to be a little more broad in your thinking, because the Bible says, and this is maybe one of the hard things for us to explain no matter how hard we try it, that the magnificence of Almighty God and his relationship with you will be so beyond anything you can ever imagine that will make the relations you would have in marriage to be almost nothing. In the chapter that I’ve written on marriage, I can’t quote this because it’s a little bit wordy, but C.S. Lewis has a great story about that to help us understand why we will still have wonderful relationships with our family and our loved ones and our wives. And in some way, that will still be somewhat the same, but compared to the relationship we have with Jesus and Almighty God, it will be minuscule.
Sheila Walsh: You talk about the fact that God won’t abandon his creation. It’s all about renew and restore. What does that tell us about the new heaven and new earth?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, you know, when you read those passages like the ones in Peter where he talks about the earth being burned up and everybody wonders, is God just going to burn up the whole world and it’s going to go away? But if you study it carefully, what you find out is those words have a meaning, not to be destroyed, but to be renovated. God’s going to renovate the earth. He’s going to burn off all of the dross, the things that don’t belong, but he’s not going to destroy it. God said when he created the earth, «It is good». He made a good earth. And we messed it up, starting with Adam. He’s going to come and totally refurbish it, renovate it. And then the New Jerusalem will sit down upon this new heaven and new earth, and heaven will be in place.
Sheila Walsh: One of the things you write about that I just found, it was so fresh, is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. We’ve all been to weddings, some good, some not so good. Talk to us about the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, the Bible speaks of it as one of the events that’s going to take place in heaven, and we know who the bride is and we know who the bridegroom is. And there will be a celebration in heaven. If you think you’ve been to great weddings, you haven’t been to anything yet. This is going to be something else. It will just be an incredible celebration of our salvation and our relationship with Jesus.
Sheila Walsh: You write: «The main thing in heaven is not paradise, heaven, the New Jerusalem. As wonderful as those places are, the main thing is our Lord Jesus Christ». Can you share more about what that means?
Dr. David Jeremiah: We only know him because of what he’s done for us. And when we stop and realize, I mean, what would my life be without Jesus Christ? You ask yourself that question. Heaven will be the celebration of our Savior, and he will be, you know, I don’t know how this works, how he can be available to all of us, so many of us. That’s one of the imponderables of heaven, but it’s true. The Bible says that. We’re going to know Jesus even as we are known. And the Bible says something even better. We shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. I mean, what a tremendous thing that’s gonna be.
Sheila Walsh: So, what will we look like in heaven? Like, how old will we be? Will we get to choose? Thirty-two was good for me. Will we be able to choose an age?
Dr. David Jeremiah: What book have you been reading, Sheila? You know, that’s a big question, and there’s a lot of debate about it. Some people think we’ll all be 33 because that’s how old Jesus was when he was on this earth. But that doesn’t mean that heaven will be populated with all 33-year-old people, you know. There will be gradations of age. There’ll be young people and older people. I don’t know the answers to some of those questions. So it’d be best for me not to give you answers I don’t have. All I know is that God has it, he has it all controlled, and he knows what he’s doing, and when we get there, we’ll figure it out.
Sheila Walsh: I’m thinking of those who have lost children before they were born, perhaps through miscarriage, or some even through abortion. And will those little ones still be infants in heaven? I know that’s an unfair question, but you’re Dr. Jeremiah.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, let me just, I think the main thing about it, Sheila, is they will be in heaven, that’s the deal. You know, I’ve had some funerals. The first funeral I ever had as a pastor, I was an associate pastor in Haddon Heights, New Jersey, and my senior pastor went away and kept me in charge, which was pretty silly because I didn’t know what I was doing. But while he was gone, one of the couples in our church had a crib death, which was very common back, not so much now, but back then, that was quite often. I had to go to their house. I was totally out of my environment. I didn’t know what I was doing. Even to this day, it was the hardest funeral I’ve ever had. But the Bible teaches that when a child dies before they have the opportunity to understand the gospel, they go to be with Jesus. And there’s many evidences of that in the Bible, the compassion of Christ, the whole plan of the gospel. But the greatest story about it is the story of David. And what happened with David when he committed that sin with Bathsheba and part of the punishment was the loss of the child. And the Bible says that David mourned for days before the child died. He wouldn’t eat, he wouldn’t get dressed and come to be with people. And then the child died. And the Bible says he washed and cleaned up and put on… and they came and said, «David, what is this deal? Before the child died, you were mourning, and now the child is dead and you’re up rejoicing». And David made this statement. He said, «The child shall not come to me, but I shall go to the child». And he knew what he was talking about. He knew that that child was with God. And we know that too, that God would never punish those who had no ability to understand the plan. And so we’re going to be in heaven, there’ll be many, many infants in heaven. What happens to them in terms of their aging? I don’t know the answer to that one.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, let me touch on something that’s a sensitive subject, but it’s personal to me. When I was a young girl, my dad, who was a very fervent follower of Christ, had a major brain injury, and my father died by suicide. What happens to believers who die by suicide?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, that is a question that has been with us for a long time, and it’s more prevalent now than ever before, as you know from the statistics. And people ask, if somebody commits suicide, will they go to heaven? And I have developed a little answer that kind of shocks them. And I say, «Yeah, you’ll go to heaven, and the first person you’re going to meet is Jesus Christ, who gave his life on the cross so that you could have life everlasting». Don’t do it. Don’t do it. But going to heaven has nothing to do with whether or not you take your own life. Going to heaven has everything to do with whether or not you’ve trusted your life to Jesus Christ. And let’s face it, there are many things that happen in our world today that put pressure on people so that they do things they don’t want to do, and sometimes it involves that. Many of us know people like that. We can’t imagine that they would ever do that. Why would they do that? But when they get to heaven, that won’t be on the entry questions for going through the gate. God won’t say to you, «Have you committed suicide»? No, he’s going to say, «Have you put your trust in Jesus Christ»? And whether you have or not will be the answer.
Sheila Walsh: Amen, amen. It seems as if the world is getting even more confusing in terms of people saying, «Well, there’s all sorts of different ways to God». You talk about the fact and you write about the fact that Jesus being the only way is actually the most loving thing about God. Talk to us about that.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, if you go to see a doctor and you’ve got cancer and he says, «There’s one thing I can do for you that will heal you, but would you like to hear about the other things»? you would not listen. You want the thing that’s going to heal you. The Bible says he’s our great physician. I was talking with some of the other people in the room before we started this interview, and I was telling them about a friend of mine who said we shouldn’t be so upset when people say there’s only one way to heaven. And he gave the story. He said, «When you’re born, there’s only one way to be born. It has to be the union of the sperm and the egg. There’s no other way. There’s not five ways to be born physically. I know they’re coming up with all the stuff they’re doing medically, but it gets right back down to this. You have to have those two elements to be born». So if God created physical birth that way, why would be surprised that he would create spiritual birth that way? You need the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, and that’s it, and you can’t get to heaven any other way. The loving thing about that, Sheila, is you don’t have to wonder. If you know this is the way, you can get on the way and get there. But if you’re left with doubts or, like, people say there are many ways to heaven, that’s like saying, «I’m going to go home here pretty soon from New York, and it doesn’t matter whether I go east, west». Ultimately, I’ll get home, I guess, because the world is round, but the directions have to match the goal, and you can’t get to heaven any other way. Jesus has laid it out for us, it’s clear. One man and one man only between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.
Sheila Walsh: I’ve heard someone say, talking about that, that it’s the widest narrow gate in the universe. And that’s absolutely right. How do we, tomorrow, when distractions and things come along, how do we develop a heavenly mindset?
Dr. David Jeremiah: You know, here’s an interesting thing if you study the Bible, and I would recommend you do this because it’s a tremendous tool. I’ve had people say to me, because I’ve done a lot of teaching on prophecy, «Why don’t you teach on things that are pragmatic, things that are pertinent»? And I like to say to them, there’s not anything more pertinent than the Scripture about the future, and here’s why. If you study the context, in almost every context that talks about heaven or the future, in the context, you will find a practical admonition. Listen to this one: «Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions». What is he saying? If you know what the future holds, you don’t have to have a troubled heart. How much is that good, you know? And all of these scriptures that talk about heaven, I was just so shocked. In fact, I wrote a whole book about this, about how the prophecies have within them these practical, current things that we should know. The Bible tells us, because the day is coming, what does the Scripture say? «Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some is, for as you see the Day approaching». When you see all these admonitions about the future, just look around in the vestibule of the verse, and you’ll find, how does this apply to me today? And you will find many, many things that you will be able to follow immediately, very practical.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, I’m thinking of somebody who’s sitting at home flipping through channels. And they stopped on this maybe because they liked the view of New York, but they heard you talking about heaven. But here’s their question, «Have I gone too far and have I waited too long»?
Dr. David Jeremiah: There’s nobody that I know of who has sinned away the day of grace. As far as I can determine, the only sin that you can commit that will keep you from heaven is the sin of unbelief. If you come to the conclusion that you’re not going to believe in Jesus, you have committed the sin that will keep you out of heaven because you can’t go to heaven unless you believe in Jesus. But I’ve heard people say, «I’ve sinned so much, God can’t save me». Are you kidding? God can save anybody who will come and ask for forgiveness. So no matter how far you think you are away from God, no matter what you’ve done that makes you think it’s unforgivable, it’s not. God will forgive you if you’ll ask him to forgive you, and he will save you and change you and take you to heaven to be with him forever.
Sheila Walsh: Amen, amen. Will you help me thank Dr. David Jeremiah?