David Jeremiah - Prayer, The Great Adventure Interview
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We are pretty self-sufficient people, but that has caused us to make prayer our last resort when we’re in trouble. We make prayer so difficult. Prayer may be mysterious, but it’s not complicated. It’s simple. And in this series, I’m going to teach you how to transform your prayer life. I’m not here to make you feel guilty about not praying as much as you should. The real issue isn’t guilt. It’s that we’re missing out on the great adventure God has for us.
So you want to know why you’re not seeing your prayers being answered? Well, they’re just not specific enough. Your prayer should be so specific that when God answers it, you recognize it. If you want your prayers answered, three things need to be true: the request needs to be right, the timing needs to be right, and you need to be right. Don’t pray like an adult. Pray like a child. Keep it simple, keep it specific, and keep at it. God cares about everything in your life, even the little things. Nothing is too insignificant to get on your prayer list because God has the capacity to care about every detail of every one of his children, including you. What is prayer? Prayer is a conversation, prayer is a relationship, and prayer is a great adventure.
So you want to know why you’re not seeing your prayers being answered? Well, they’re just not specific enough. Your prayer should be so specific that when God answers it, you recognize it. If you want your prayers answered, three things need to be true: the request needs to be right, the timing needs to be right, and you need to be right. Don’t pray like an adult. Pray like a child. Keep it simple, keep it specific, and keep at it. God cares about everything in your life, even the little things. Nothing is too insignificant to get on your prayer list because God has the capacity to care about every detail of every one of his children, including you. What is prayer? Prayer is a conversation, prayer is a relationship, and prayer is a great adventure.
David Jeremiah: Thank you for joining us today. We are going to talk about something that people are very nervous to talk about. And I think that if you want to empty your church out, announce that you’re going to do a series on witnessing one month and a series on prayer the next, and by the time you get to the third month, nobody will be left because everybody feels a certain sense of guilt about those two things. But we shouldn’t feel a sense of guilt. We should ask God to teach us to pray. That’s actually what the disciples asked Jesus to do. And I find it interesting: they didn’t say, «Teach us how to pray,» although that was part of the answer. They said, «Lord, teach us to pray». And I think that’s one of the things we all need to learn how to do. We’re gonna have a very honest discussion about prayer today. I think I can speak for Sheila as I speak for myself. Neither one of us consider ourselves to be experts on the subject because we feel the same kind of «we should be doing better» that you feel. But we want to have this honest discussion. I’ve actually written a book on it, just some things that I’ve learned along the way and things that we’re going to talk about. So it’s my privilege to introduce Sheila Walsh. Can we say hi to her?
Sheila Walsh: I am so excited to be here. If prayer is so… in fact, the words you use in your book, you talk about thrilling, exciting, an adventure. Can prayer honestly be thrilling?
David Jeremiah: You know what, Sheila, I do believe it is because most of our life is cause and effect. We do this and this happens. But when we pray, we do this, we pray, but we have no idea what God is going to do. It’s a wide-open scenario, and many times, according to the Bible, he does more than we could ask or think. And so when we enter into that corridor of prayer, we are walking in uncertain territory, and it’s always for the good.
Sheila Walsh: Let me ask you just a very basic question. If prayer is this great adventure, which I believe, why do we find it so hard?
David Jeremiah: You know, I think part of the reason for that is we’re all pretty self-sufficient people. We know we should pray, but we can do it ourselves. I hear people say things like this, you know, «I tried this and I tried that, I guess the only thing to do left now is to pray». It’s their last resort. And that says a lot about prayer because it tells us that we are self-centered people and self-sufficient people. And sometimes it takes hard things in our lives to help us realize that’s not true.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, there’s a passage of scripture that you call a treasure map. I love that, that picture of us seeking for treasure. It’s Matthew 7 where it says: «Ask, and you will be given; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened». How does that guide us in how we pray?
David Jeremiah: The thing about that is it takes prayer out of the philosophical and puts it right down. I mean, I joke with people when I say when I first read that passage, I thought ask was a special word for prayer. And I looked it up in the lexicons and found out it means ask. It’s not a word for prayer. God is simply saying to us, ask and you will receive.
Sheila Walsh: Jesus gave his disciples kind of a roadmap for prayer, the Lord’s Prayer. Why do you call it the perfect prayer?
David Jeremiah: Well, you know, if somebody asked, «Who’s the greatest teacher on prayer,» I would say Jesus, because when the disciples said, «Teach us to pray,» he gave them a prayer. And we’ll talk a little bit more about that, I’m sure, but that prayer wasn’t just a mantra for us to learn and repeat. It was a model prayer. It was an outline. I actually have a little outline in one of my Bibles that I made for myself with the outline for prayer from the Lord’s Prayer. And when we follow that outline, it is pretty amazing how broad the subject becomes.
Sheila Walsh: So let’s break that down. Let’s go with the first line, «Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name». It’s a beautiful way to begin because it’s beginning with praise and worship.
David Jeremiah: Mm-hmm, let me tell you what I know about prayer, Sheila. If you just list your problems and leave God out of the picture in your prayer, when you get done praying, you will be more depressed than you were when you started. Because listing your problems doesn’t do anything for you. You have to bring God into the picture. And Jesus taught us that the way you pray is you begin by acknowledging God’s presence and worshiping him and acknowledging that he is worthy of our prayers.
Sheila Walsh: The next part of the prayer is, «Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven». That is a heart cry for our priorities to be God’s priorities, don’t you think?
David Jeremiah: Well, you know, ultimately that prayer will only be answered in the Millennium when the King comes to the earth and puts his will into practice on the earth. But between now and then, it is our goal and our desire to learn how to live in such a way that we please God in that what we do is what we would do if we could do everything knowing it was right. The Bible teaches us we’re to pray for God’s priorities to happen in our lives.
Sheila Walsh: What do you do if you’re in a situation where you’re like, I don’t know what God’s will is in this situation? How do you know you’re doing what God’s will is?
David Jeremiah: God is not hiding his will from you. He’s not up in heaven saying, «I’m not going to let them find out what this is. Let them seek», you know. God wants you to know his will. That’s a good place to start. One of the things that happens to us along the way is we get consumed with the will of God for our lives and we ought to be more consumed for what we’re going to do tomorrow. You know, if we put enough God’s will being done today, together, we’ll have God’s will for our life.
Sheila Walsh: I love, in Psalms, you read: «Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path,» and the lamp kind of tells you where to take just the next step. I love that. If we move on to, we started the prayer with praise, then seeking God’s priorities. The next step is provision, where it talks about, «Give us this day our daily bread». That to me is a clear indication that Christ is saying we are dependent on God for everything.
David Jeremiah: That’s true. And we should always remember that whatever we need, if it’s in the will of God, he has it and he’s promised to provide it for us. Sheila, one of the memorable moments of my life and Donna’s in ministry was when we left a church in Haddon Heights, New Jersey, where I was a youth pastor and went to Fort Wayne to start a church. And I was so frightened and there were seven families there. And I remember the day that Donna and I drove our car with a U-Haul behind it and pulled into this driveway where we had purchased a house for $27,000.
Sheila Walsh: Whoa, those were the days.
David Jeremiah: Tells you how old we are. And I told her I was gonna go in and make sure the doors were open. I went in and I went into the kitchen, and there was a big sign on the cabinet. To this day, we do not know who put it there. And this is what it said: «God’s commandments are God’s enablements». God will help you do what he’s called you to do. And as I’ve gotten older and gained more responsibility for the church and what David and Cami and Donna and I are doing here with all of the people that are here, I realize, man, I don’t want more than one day. One day is enough, man. One day is enough to trust God for, because sometimes the challenges are great, and you’re not capable of taking more, you know, God gave us life in days for a reason so that we can handle them one day at a time.
Sheila Walsh: I love that, I love that his mercies are new every morning.
Sheila Walsh: Now we move on to the part of the prayer that’s to do with personal relationships. «Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors». You talk in this book very strongly, very compellingly, about the joy of forgiveness. So let me ask you a question. If somebody really hurts me and I forgive them, how does that give me joy?
David Jeremiah: It takes away the burden that you carry of unforgiveness. The two verses in the Bible, one in Matthew and one in Mark, where it says if you have offended somebody and you’re bringing your gift to the altar, go get it right with the person you offended. Then if you’ve been offended by somebody, go get it right because you can’t do business with God and when you have unsolved issues with one another. And the issue there, Sheila, is that when you have something like that, it’s always your turn. When you’ve been offended, it’s your turn to get it right. If you’ve offended somebody, it’s your turn to get it right. You say, «Well, I got it right last time». Never mind, it’s your turn. It’s always your turn. And when we do that, God opens the way.
Sheila Walsh: I have to say that understanding the power of forgiveness has been one of the most life-changing things for me because you’re right, it sets you free. And it’s another way of saying, «God, I trust you. I’m not going to try and fix this myself, I trust you».
David Jeremiah: That’s exactly right.
Sheila Walsh: I met a woman, we were having coffee together in just an airport somewhere, we had a layover, and she said, «You know, my husband left me and went off with a young woman. I got him all through college and the minute he’s through…» And I said, «When did this happen»? And she said, «Twenty-three years ago». And she was caught in this place of being unable to forgive. When you don’t forgive, how does that impact how God forgives us?
David Jeremiah: Well, you know, there’s a lot of confusion in that passage. It almost seems to say that our relationship with God is dependent upon our relationships with each other. And we know that is not true. God does not forgive us only if we forgive others. The text seems to say that, but if you study it carefully, you realize what God is saying is this: If you want to come and seek forgiveness, you need to make sure that you’re dealing with an honest hand, you know? «God, I want you to forgive me and love me and deal with me, but I hate this guy over here and I hate him and», well, wait a minute, God loves him. You see, you got a major problem if you do that. And that’s what he is saying. Deal with me as you want me to deal with you. And I believe that’s the meaning of the text.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, I think that we struggle sometimes with this concept of thinking that, you know, we should forgive because Jesus forgave us. But honestly, that’s been one of the most liberating things for me. I remember as just a young girl in Scotland seeing a pretty poorly made movie, but about the life of Christ. And it was when I saw the crucifixion scene, and I heard Jesus say, «Father, forgive them for they know not what they do». Then you begin to think, «Why on earth would I ever not forgive»?
David Jeremiah: And that’s what the scripture says: we are to forgive as God has forgiven us, for Christ’s sake. And I say it this way: out of the reservoir of God’s forgiveness for you, you will always have enough forgiveness for anyone who ever hurts you. You forgive others out of the realization that God has forgiven you. In some ways you say, «Lord, I don’t want to forgive this person, but I know what I’ve done and I know how unworthy I am to be forgiven, and you forgave me. In the same way that you forgave me, I’m going to forgive this person».
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, that’s beautiful. The next line in the Lord’s Prayer, I used to find confusing when I was a teenager, 'cause we pray: «Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil». Why would we pray that, 'cause surely God wouldn’t lead us into temptation?
David Jeremiah: It’s a preemptive prayer, it’s saying, «Lord», it’s kind of a don’t do this, but do this. Don’t lead me into temptation, but deliver me from evil. God never tempts anyone to sin. He tests us to see whether or not we’re willing to follow him, but he never tempts anyone to sin. The Bible’s very clear about that. And then he says, «And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us,» not from evil, but «from the evil one,» from Satan, «who goes about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour». He’s always on the prowl, always after us, and we should pray, «Lord, don’t lead me down that road where he’s doing his thing today».
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, «For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen». It seems like there’s a pattern there beginning with praise, but that’s how he ends it.
David Jeremiah: Yeah, you know what, I think that’s one of the lessons we should learn about our own prayers. Bookend your prayers with praise. Start with praise, end with praise. Fill the middle of it with provision and protection and all the other things. Just make sure you go in the front door with praise and you go out the back door with praise. Put the rest of it in, and if you do that, you’ll find that to be very helpful.
Sheila Walsh: Do you think praying, I’ve found some days in my own life, if I’m having a really hard day, that praying aloud helps sometimes?
David Jeremiah: Yeah, first of all, it keeps you from falling asleep. I mean, you guys are laughing at me, but you know what I’m talking about. You know, it keeps you alert mentally. What a great experience it was for me to go to the Brooklyn Tabernacle and be involved in their services and hear them all pray. They don’t just pray one at a time when it’s time for prayer. They all stand up and they all start praying out loud. And you feel like you’re in this universe that you’ve never been in before, just to hear all these people crying out to God at the same time. And it’s a really wonderful thing to hear all the people of God praying out loud.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, you go on in the book to talk about the fact the real Lord’s Prayer is actually found in John chapter 17, which you say might be one of the greatest chapters in the Bible.
David Jeremiah: The 17th chapter of John contains our Lord’s prayer to his Father. It’s very intimate. I preached a whole series of messages on that prayer at one time. You cannot read that prayer without realizing how much the Lord Jesus Christ loves us. I mean, the love of God for us is so borne out in the prayer. He prays that God will keep us. He prays that God would love us. And when you read that prayer, you can’t help but be blessed.
Sheila Walsh: I love that last dialogue, the whole, those chapters, 14, 15, 16, 17, just some of my favorite passages of scripture. Now, you give an interesting fact I didn’t know. Do you know there are 650 prayers in scripture? But you identify this high priestly prayer in John 17 as almost listening in to heaven’s conversation. What a privilege.
David Jeremiah: Because it is, it’s truly what it is. We have on paper the words that Jesus used to talk to his Father during a time of great anguish and stress. And his concern was not for himself; his concern was for us. And when you read that, it’s just, it’s a wonderful experience.
Sheila Walsh: Even knowing what lay ahead of him, in the next hours, he was praying for us. It’s overwhelming. The last time we were together, you talked about something that I found fascinating 'cause it’s never something I’ve done. You talked about the power of journaling. How has that helped you?
David Jeremiah: When I had cancer, I had lymphoma cancer twice, and it shut me down for a little while. And I remember a godly woman telling me that I should journal. And I did not know how to do that. In fact, the only people that I knew who journaled were mystics and women. I’m not kidding you. I’m telling the truth. I never knew of a man who journaled. And one day I was reading a book by Gordon MacDonald called «The Life God Blesses,» and in that book, he talked about journaling in his computer. That sounded very masculine to me. And I decided, you know, it would be a good idea to keep a record of my experiences, and I’d probably have that many pages of journaling, which I’m going to shred before I die. The journaling thing was really helpful to me during that time. The way I journal was I would just type out my prayer to God. The journal began, «Dear Lord, yesterday was this way and that way, and this is what happened and this is how this worked». And then I began to add quotes from books I was reading that were helping me spiritually. And I put the quotes in there and, most of all, scriptures. And then, of course, I was asking God for things. One of my great prayers was that God would let me live long enough to see my grandchildren. I never even added great-grandchildren. I thought that was a little bit… The Bible says he does more than we would ask or think. So he gave me grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I have that in my prayer. I have that in my journal when I asked it. And you know what happens when you’re going through a dry time? You go back and read and you say, «You know, God, I can’t believe, I’d forgotten that you did this for me and you did this for me». He’s always doing something.
Sheila Walsh: That’s so true, yeah. I decided to do a little research and ask people, you know, what are some of the questions that you would like to ask Dr. Jeremiah, particularly on the issue of prayer? Somebody asked, «Does God listen to us when we pray even when we don’t feel like our prayers are going any higher than the bedroom ceiling»?
David Jeremiah: Well, just read the command: «Pray without ceasing, except when you don’t feel like your prayers are going out of the room». That’s not what it says. It says: «Pray without ceasing. Man ought always to pray and not to faint». You know, sometimes I think we think that spiritual discipline is a matter of how we feel, you know? The Bible says: «Husbands love your wives». You say, «Well, I don’t feel like it». Well, do it anyway because that’s what you’re supposed to do. There are many things in the scripture like that, and prayer is certainly one of them. Prayer is a responsibility that God has placed upon us, whether we feel like it or not.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, somebody asked, «What should I do when I pray and I don’t feel anything’s happening»?
David Jeremiah: Well, I’ve always said that there’s more than one answer to prayer, and there’s yes, there’s no, there’s wait, and there’s grow, you know? And God may be testing you. I’ve had many stories, one of my favorite stories about my professor in seminary, Dr. Hendricks, was he prayed for his unsaved father for 47 years. And he got saved just before he died. And I remember him saying, «I’m glad I didn’t stop at 25 or 27. I kept on praying».
Sheila Walsh: A lifetime’s not too long to pray.
David Jeremiah: No, that’s right.
Sheila Walsh: I want to return to something we kind of touched on earlier, and that’s unanswered prayer. You know, I’m thinking of people who might be watching or here with us that they’ve prayed and prayed about something and it’s just like they feel like God is not answering. What do you do in a place like that?
David Jeremiah: Well, you know, I don’t have any expectations that I can explain God and I don’t know what he’s up to. What I know is what I know about him, and he’s good and gracious and he cares deeply about us, and there’s no way that God would withhold answers from us that he deemed were for our good and for his glory. So you keep on praying. And you know what, some of our prayers may not be answered this side of heaven. We may get to heaven and we’ll be looking at each other, «So that’s what was all about». We may be saying that kind of stuff. I just think to keep on praying, even when you don’t see the immediate answer, is a testimony to your faith in God and your persistence.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, I remember you telling me that when you were with the Brooklyn Tabernacle, that they told you that they had been crying out to God for you during your illness. Has there been a time in your own life when you’ve cried out to God and see him move in a mighty way?
David Jeremiah: Well, I’m going to tell you a little story. When Donna and I started our church back in Fort Wayne, Indiana, with seven couples, we had little children and I was working really hard. And I was, believe it or not, I started on the radio by driving to the radio station and doing the show live 'cause we didn’t have any equipment and we couldn’t afford any equipment. So I’d get in my car every morning. I’d go to that radio station, get there by 7:30. I had a 15-minute show, and then I’d come home and that’s when Donna and I would sit and talk. We had a really nice little house that had kind of a sunken living room in it. You know what I mean? You kind of walk down in the living room. I came home one day, we were talking, and all of a sudden she went… she reached across her chest like that and then she passed out on the floor. And I didn’t know what to do. I tried everything to get her to come to. She didn’t come to. I called 911 and before the ambulance got there, the sheriff arrived. He tried to bring her to. And finally they took her away in an ambulance and I was there when she went to the hospital. They had her for several hours, and finally she recovered. I don’t know what they did. They never did tell me exactly what happened to her. And I don’t know to this day what took place. But I’ll tell you what, ladies and gentlemen, my prayer in that ambulance between my house and the hospital was the most intense prayer I’ve ever known in my life. When we are in need we don’t pray, we cry out to God, and that’s what happened.
Sheila Walsh: That’s beautiful, beautiful. Will you help me thank Dr. Jeremiah?