David Jeremiah - The World of the End Interview
Sheila Walsh: We're all familiar with the term "the end of the world," but are we living in the world of the end? We're certainly living during troubling times. Some days it seems like bad news is everywhere you turn. And with such a landslide of troubling news comes the questions: Why is this happening? When will it stop? And what can we do? Well, Dr. David Jeremiah has been studying and teaching from God's Word for more than 60 years; amazing. And in his teaching series entitled "The World of the End," he focuses on the portion of biblical prophecy that is unique from all others, because they are the words of Jesus himself. Dr. Jeremiah believes that Jesus doesn't give us this very special prophecy so that we would be afraid or overwhelmed by the world of the end, but to face it with confidence and with hope. Dr. Jeremiah is here to challenge us, not to be frightened, I love this, but to be faithful. And I'm excited that he's here to share this very important study with us. Won't you help me welcome Dr. David Jeremiah?
Sheila Walsh: I am so excited to be here in this beautiful church and to be with you again. And one of the things that we all know is that one of the trademarks of your ministry is that you make God's Word so understandable. You know, even complicated passages, you teach them, and we understand. And you are an authority on biblical prophecy, but you don't just teach biblical prophecy. You teach the entire Word of God. But for this series, you've gone back to biblical prophecy. So, I wanted to ask, why now and why this?
Dr. David Jeremiah: There's this portion of Scripture in Matthew 24 that often gets neglected. In fact, many Bible teachers say it's the most neglected prophetic portion of God's Word, and it's so strange, because these are the words of Jesus. And I began to read those words and became overwhelmingly just blessed by the way Jesus used some of his last words before he went to the cross to prepare his disciples and us for what's coming in the future. Of all the people that you want to listen to about what's going to happen in the future, you can choose a lot of experts, but you can't choose anybody better than Jesus. And one of the reasons for that, Sheila, is that he's timeless. He's God in the flesh, and he's now God in heaven with the Father, but he lives in the present. Our future is still his present. And when he talks about the future, he's already there, and he knows what's gonna happen because he's already experienced it, and you can have this confidence in what he says because you know it's the absolute truth. So, instead of running around trying to figure out what did he say, what did she say, what's in this book, what's in that book, maybe it's a good idea for us to just take a few moments and listen to the Master.
Sheila Walsh: Amen. Is there a difference between the end of the world and the world of the end?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Yes, you know, if I told you I was gonna talk about the end of the world, you probably wouldn't come, because I don't know when the end of the world is. And the Bible tells us we don't even have the right to speculate that. But I do know that we are in the world of the end. We're not at the end of the world, but we're in the world of the end. In one of the passages, Jesus says, "But the end is not yet". And in another passage, he calls what we're gonna talk about "the beginning of sorrows". So, while the end of the world is not tomorrow, at least I don't think so, we are in the world of the end. We're in the season. We may not know the day, we may not know the hour, but we can know the season, and we're in this season of prophecy. Anybody who studies the Word of God seriously would have to admit that. I know people say they don't believe it, but how many of you know, because you don't believe it doesn't make it untrue.
Sheila Walsh: So true.
Dr. David Jeremiah: And the Bible is very clear about the things we're gonna talk about. These are not my words, not Sheila's words. We didn't find this in some book of wisdom. This is Jesus on the Olivet Discourse.
Sheila Walsh: There's a phrase that you use in the teaching that I found, I'd never heard before, but I thought, yeah. You say prophecy is practical. What do you mean by that?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, if you study prophecy, I promise you you can't avoid it, because every place there's a prophetic truth, in the context of that prophetic truth there is a practical admonition or a practical truth. Jesus never meant for prophecy to be pie in the sky, by and by. He meant it to help us understand the future so we would know how to live today. That's why in this book, at the end of every chapter, there is "How do we live today," because this is true. We don't need to be just, you know, it's not gonna do us any good if we're just smarter about the future. The future sets the stage for how we live today. And I believe that that's very true across the whole length and breadth of prophecy in the Bible.
Sheila Walsh: You touched on that, but it's one of the things I love most about this teaching, that at the end of every message, you have listed out every Scripture, all the Scriptures that relate to that. That is a phenomenal tool.
Dr. David Jeremiah: The Bible is what helps us through the tough times, but if you don't know where the verses are that deal with the problem you're facing, it's pretty tough. You can't be a generalist. You've gotta be a specialist. So, we've tried to find the ten best verses for every chapter in this book. We put them at the end of the chapter in the printed book. I grew up in a Christian home, where my mom and dad used to have a little box on the kitchen table. It was called the promise box. And it had all these verses in it, and every night after dinner, all the kids around the table would take one of those promises out, and we would read the promises around the table and put them in the back of the box so they circulated back, and that was something I grew up with. And we're creating a little promise box that goes with this series to give you the verses that really speak to the issues that we're going to be talking about.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, and you say a little promise box. This is going to be phenomenal. Everyone is gonna want one of these. The subtitle of the book is "How Jesus's Prophecy Shapes Our Priorities". And the first message is titled, "The Prophecy". And I have to tell you, this message gave me chill bumps, because you take us right to the moment when Jesus delivered these words. It's the last week of his life. We've had Palm Sunday. Monday, he's turned over the tables in the temple. Now it's Tuesday evening, and he's speaking to his closest friends. Why is this prophecy so important?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, Jesus gave this prophecy on the Mount of Olives. Unlike what many people think, he didn't give it to all of his disciples, just four: Peter, James, John, and Andrew. And he did it in response to the questions they asked. If you've ever been to Israel, and you've been on the Mount of Olives, you know you can see the whole Temple Mount from there. It's one of the most beautiful places in the world. And Jesus, the Bible says he sat on that mountain in the position of authority, and he talked to these four disciples about what was to come: some of it immediately and then ultimately.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, amazing; some people say, "Well, I think some of this has already happened". But you're teaching this because you say this prophecy is so relevant for how we're living today; otherwise, you would not be teaching on it.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Right, part of the prophecy that Jesus gave that particular day on the Mount of Olives was, from the standpoint of humanity, the most absurd thing you've ever heard in your life. Jesus pointed to the temple and said, "In a short time, not one stone will be left upon another on this temple". And I've done a whole bunch of research on the temple, and I've tried to imagine what that must've sounded like to those four disciples. I mean, you hear yourself saying, "Right, sure, that isn't gonna happen". But it did happen, and we know it happened, because we have the record of it in 70 AD from Josephus and the other secular writers. Jesus told the truth about that. Somebody said, "Why did he do that"? And I wrote in my book, he filed his prophetic credentials, because he said, "This is gonna happen". It happened just a few years later in 70 AD. So, we have the record of his prophecy, and we have the record of the fulfillment, and we know both of those are true. And Jesus said, "This happened; and just like this happened, everything else I'm gonna tell you is gonna happen as well". You can trust the prophecies of Jesus. He gave us this incredible example in those first few verses.
Sheila Walsh: As you studied this passage in Matthew 24, was there anything in particular that stood out to you?
Dr. David Jeremiah: You know, Sheila, early on in the study, I found myself remembering how easy it is for us during times like this to ask the Lord to change our circumstances. Have you done that? "Lord, can you just please change this"? And sometimes I think we should hear the Lord saying back to us, "You want me to change the circumstances so your life will be better, but I'm gonna use the circumstances to make you better". And so I began to think that way in this passage of Scripture. I began to see all of these various things that God uses when we're going through tough times. And they don't get better. In fact, let's face it. We don't have the ability to change our circumstances, not even a little bit, and maybe we're asking the wrong question. Maybe the question is not, "What can I do to change the circumstances"? But "How can I let these circumstances change me so that I become a better person"?
Sheila Walsh: That's fantastic. Moving on to the second message, which is "In a World of Deception, Be Honest". After the first message, it felt like there's a whole shift in the teaching, and it tells us how to live in these days. How are you challenging us to live?
Dr. David Jeremiah: In every message in this book, there's a prophecy and then there's kind of like an imperative. For instance, in the message that you mentioned, I think you would say it this way: "In a world of deception, what can you do"? Just be honest. I mean, that seems so simple; and yet, dishonesty is rampant among Christian people, and it's rampant in churches. And Jesus said, "See that you be not deceived. When these things are going to happen, there are gonna be people that stand up and say, 'I am the Christ.'" And we tell some stories in this book about people actually did that, both in New Testament times and in our lifetime, who claimed that they knew when Jesus was coming back and all of this. When you walk into the prophetic world, you walk into a world where if you're not careful, you can be deceived. You need to keep your head on straight and listen carefully and study carefully, because Satan wants to use that environment to confuse you and deceive you. And Jesus says, "Beware, don't be deceived".
Sheila Walsh: I can't think of a time in my lifetime when there's been so much confusion and deception. And I think many of us wonder, like, who on earth can you trust? How do we, as God's children, as Christ's disciples, live in a time like this? I mean, some days we just wanna hide till it's all over.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Yes, that is true. It's surprising to me that the Bible has a lot of information to help us. First of all, we know the great deceiver is Satan. And the Bible says he's the father of lies. There is no truth in him. There never has been. All deceit originates with Satan, and it began, as we know from history, in the garden, when Satan deceived Adam and Eve. Did you know that he had a strategy then that he's never changed? He used the exact same strategy when he tried to deceive Jesus in the wilderness. He uses that same strategy on you and me every day. And in the end of this chapter, I went back into the 3rd chapter of Genesis, and I laid out Satan's strategy. Here's how he does his work. The Bible says we're not to be ignorant of the devices of Satan. That means study his strategies so you don't get sucked in. Don't let Satan take you out of your walk with the Lord simply because you've never spent any time figuring out what his plan is. The Bible says he goes around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. I remember one day when it became apparent to me that he doesn't want to devour you personally. He wants to devour your influence. He wants to ruin you and your influence for Jesus Christ; don't let him do it. Well, how do I keep him from doing it? His whole arsenal of ideas is in the third chapter of Genesis. Study it so you don't get caught up in it. And we kind of laid that out at the end of that chapter.
Sheila Walsh: What are some of the more nefarious ways that the enemy is trying to deceive us in these days?
Dr. David Jeremiah: One of the things that I think he tries to do is get us to think that everything's supposed to be good all the time. God didn't promise that we would not have difficult days. A good portion of the Word of God is helping us learn how to live in difficult times. And so if you think your happiness is bound up in this world, you're gonna have a rough life. He didn't create you to be happy in this world. He created you to be happy in that world when you're with him. You're gonna have a measure of happiness now, as you walk with the Lord, but you will never find total fulfillment in this world. You weren't created to do that, but Satan wants you to think if you do this and that, and you'd be happy. That's one of his great tactics.
Sheila Walsh: The next message is titled, "In a World of War, Be Calm". I mean, I cannot think of a more perfect message for the times that we are living in. When you hear on the news, wars, rumors of wars, what comes to your mind?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, I haven't lived through any major world wars. I was born in 1941, and the Second World War was coming to an end. I remember a little bit about it. And one of my favorite things to read about is the Second World War. I've read every book I can find on it. It was a tragic time, but it was also a time of great courage, and it makes you wonder: If we would have to fight that war again, could we do it now with what's happened to us as a culture? But war is a part of the Bible. Jesus himself is called the Lord of Armies. War is used in the New Testament as an illustration of how to live the Christian life. There's a whole section on the armament of the believer. So, war is not something we can avoid. And when Jesus says that in the end times you should be aware of the fact that, just as a woman is going through pregnancy, her pain will be more frequent and more intense as she gets close to the time of birth, the issues of war will become more intense and more frequent as we come close to the time of the Lord's return. He actually uses that a couple of times in the New Testament. The birth pain principle, and every woman here is shaking their head; you know what that's all about. So, what Jesus is saying is this isn't gonna happen all of a sudden. You're not gonna wake up one day and it's different totally than it was the day before. But little by little, as we move toward the end of the time, these events are going to take on greater frequency and greater intensity, and that is what we're watching right now.
Sheila Walsh: When Jesus says, "When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed," how do we do that?
Dr. David Jeremiah: You know what, Sheila, that's gotta be one of the most counterintuitive sections in the New Testament. I mean, you would think he would say, "You're gonna hear of wars and rumors of wars, so go button down the hatches and get some food," you know, but he doesn't say that. He says, "You're gonna hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that ye be not troubled". He meant that because, first of all, war doesn't take him by surprise, and he has everything in control, and he is the one who can bring peace to our hearts, even when there's turmoil all around us. I love John 16 where Jesus says, "In the world, you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world".
Sheila Walsh: Amen.
Dr. David Jeremiah: It's interesting that when Jesus says, "There will be wars and rumors of wars," that statement, "wars and rumors of wars," when it was first used in the Greek language, it was an idiom for world war. So, Jesus is probably saying, "In the future, you're going to hear of world war," and here we are. I've heard that more than I've ever heard it before in the last 10, 15 years. "We don't talk about there being another world war. Oh, somebody would say it once in a while". It's on the news almost every day, if you listen. It's in the language. It's more frequent and more intense. That's what Jesus is saying. As you move toward these times, you're gonna start to notice these things. You're going to hear of wars and rumors of wars, but don't be troubled. First of all, the Bible says one day he's gonna come back, and we will learn about war no more; wars will cease. We'll build up plowshares out of our swords, and we will study war no more. We know that's gonna be true. But even in this time when there is war, some of the greatest stories of courage and faith have come out of the war. We are going to see some wars, whether we like it or not.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah. The next message is "In a World of Disasters, Be Confident". What do you think Jesus was talking about there when he talked about world of disasters?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, he actually tells us there are going to be diseases, there's going to be famine, and there are going to be earthquakes. And what he's saying is, as we move toward the time when Jesus is to return, you're going to see more and more of that. We just came through a pandemic; it's the first universal pandemic any of us have ever known. We have not known anything like that before. What we learned there was that disease can infect a world, not just a nation; it affected the whole world. Every nation in the world had this COVID-19 stuff. Jesus said, "As you get closer to the time when I'm going to return, you're going to see more pestilence," that's disease. All Jesus is saying is, "Here's some things to watch for". These are not so much signs as they are indications that we are living in the world of the end. It's not the end of the world, but we're living in the world of the end. We're in the season of our Lord's return, and that's a very important principle for us to understand.
Sheila Walsh: I think disasters are very humbling. You know, we can think that we know so much, and then something like that happens, and we're brought to our knees. I wonder if what Christ is trying to teach us in those moments, and you use a phrase in your teaching that I've never heard before: supernatural discipleship. I love that.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, we had a little of that during COVID, didn't we, had a little supernatural discipleship. You know, it was hard. COVID was tough, and we're not through it yet. The things that are happening like that, that we can observe, just stop us in our tracks sometimes. I mean, a pandemic is a worldwide pestilence. The Bible says before Jesus comes back, there's gonna be an increase in pestilences.
Sheila Walsh: Wow. Message five is, "In a World of Persecution, Be Prepared". And honestly, interestingly enough, I found that one of the most encouraging messages that you have written. A lot of us tend to think, "Well, yeah, in the 1st century, believers were persecuted. We know what Nero did to all those people. That's really not such a problem anymore". What would you say to that?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Sheila, when I was growing up, when I got 16, guess my parents must've thought I was capable of handling it, they gave me a copy of "Foxe's Book of Martyrs," and they wanted me to read it, and it scared the living daylights out of me, because it's the story of the suffering that Christians had gone through during that period of time for their faith. I won't even attempt to give you the descriptions, because they're horrible. And I think probably growing up and even until middle adulthood, I just assumed that that was stuff that happened in the past. In the past, people used to be persecuted for their faith. But did you know that more persecution has happened in the last 70 years than have happened in all of history, and that today, persecution touches every country? It is overwhelmingly serious in many countries of the world where the gospel is being pushed back, and it's starting to reach its ugly, icy fingers into the American culture so that persecution is becoming a part of it. And in that chapter, I tell the whole story of Pastor Brunson and what happened to him, and how he was persecuted, and how God rescued him, and the story of the football coach who was persecuted because he just wanted to pray on the 50-yard line. It's going to cost us more and more to be Christians. Our faith is going to be more challenged than it's ever been before. And Jesus said that, he said, "You will be persecuted. You will be marginalized. You will be hated". And then we read in the Bible, Jesus said, "If they hated me, don't be surprised if they hate you, 'cause you're my follower". Persecution isn't just a bad day at work. Persecution isn't inflation. Persecution is suffering because of your faith in Jesus Christ; just that simple. So, you may never have been persecuted. You may have had a bad day. Maybe you're having a bad night. Maybe this has been a bad week. Well, call it anything you want, but don't call it persecution, because persecution is only suffering that you incur because you are a follower of Jesus Christ. And most of us have never experienced that. But given what I understand is going on in the world today, some of us will experience that before we go to heaven.
Sheila Walsh: This is why I find that message so compelling, because, you know, I travel all around the world. And the ministry of "Turning Point" goes all around the world. Whether I've been in South Africa, Europe, Australia, there are people who will watch this interview who even now are being persecuted, and they will sit and they will listen to you. What would you say to them?
Dr. David Jeremiah: I would just say that God is enough and that God is with you. He's promised never to leave you, never to forsake you, and I think there must be some kind of special connection with the Lord when you go through persecution. The disciples talked about being honored to be able to suffer for the Lord. Something happens to a person when they stand up for their faith and they're ridiculed or persecuted by others. So, the Bible says that during those times, Christ draws near to you as never before. And every story you read about someone who's gone through a time of persecution for their faith, that's the consistent answer: "I never felt the presence of the Lord like I did during those days". If you want to know the presence of the Lord, get persecuted, because that's when it happens.
Sheila Walsh: I sometimes think there's a difference between participant grace and spectator grace. Sometimes we look on at people who are suffering and think, "I could never do that". But don't you think, when you're in the middle of it, there's a grace available?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Right, I think a lot of people have vicarious blessings; you know, they watch people suffer, and they vicariously enter into their suffering, and they're blessed along with the person who is suffering. But what Jesus is saying is there's going to come a time before he returns when most of us who are followers of Christ will at least know something of what it means to suffer some kind of pushback, marginalization, persecution for our faith. And all the Bible says is, get ready for it. Don't be surprised when it happens. It's not something that happens to you because you've done something bad. It's something that happens to you because you're a faithful follower of Jesus Christ.
Sheila Walsh: In the next message, you talk about, "In a World of Betrayal, Be Faithful". I don't think there's anything more personally hard to cope with than when you're betrayed, particularly by someone you love, or someone you know, or a fellow believer.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Betrayal is interesting because it can't happen unless it's someone you know and someone you love and someone you've trusted. You can't be betrayed by somebody you don't know. So, betrayal means you've allowed somebody into your life, somebody into your world, you've trusted them with who you are, and they have violated that trust, and nothing ever hurts like that. It's what happens when someone is unfaithful to their spouse. It's what happens in school when somebody you thought was your friend betrays you on the Internet. It happens over and over again in our culture. And Jesus said, as we get closer to the time when he returns, betrayal is going to be more prominent than it's ever been. People don't necessarily treasure their relationships as they once did. If it's not convenient for them, or if it's better for them, they'll throw you under the bus in a minute. I hate to say that, but it's true, and we know it's true, and we see it more and more all the time.
Sheila Walsh: So, what do you do when a fellow believer, or a friend, a trusted friend, as you say, someone you've let into your life, betrays you? How do you deal with that? That's gotta have happened to you.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, it's happened to me two or three times in ways that, I mean, even just thinking about it makes me feel funny. To be honest with you, if we're normal, we probably plan our revenge. We make up our speeches. You get in your car, and you have a little speech you're gonna give; if you ever see that person, they're gonna get a piece of your mind that you can't afford to lose, you know what I'm saying? That's not the right way, because if you allow that to happen, the cycle will just keep repeating itself. It's during times like that that you have to learn how to forgive, and it's very difficult when somebody betrays you, but you have to refuse to take that offense upon yourself. Because if you don't, you'll be the one who is hurt. One of the ways you avoid betrayal is by how carefully you pick your friends. I think a lot of times today we don't always pick our friends the way we should. We're not careful. Friends are the only ones who can betray you. If they're not your friend, if you haven't trusted them with your life, or maybe you've told them something you didn't want anybody ever to know, and they went and told everybody. There's all kinds of ways this happens, but especially young people. Here's kind of a little key that I discovered. When you have a friend as a Christian, you need to ask yourself, "Is this friend helping me become more of a Christian and walk with the Lord, or is this friend pulling me away from my faith"? I know a lot think, "Well, I'm gonna be their friend, and I'll win them to Christ". And I wonder, how's that going? It doesn't work that way. If you're not careful, your ungodly friends won't allow you to be the person you want to be. So, find friends that will walk with you in this journey. Find friends that will encourage you. That doesn't mean you don't have your acquaintances in the world. But your best friend, as a Christian, shouldn't be somebody who doesn't know the Lord Jesus Christ that you've given your heart to; because if that friend is not a Christian, ultimately, you're going to be compromised.
Sheila Walsh: Reading this message made me want to live my life unoffendable, but you include this beautiful thing that Lord Tennyson wrote about Cranmer, the Archbishop of Canterbury, in the 16th century. Listen, this is beautiful, talking about his heart: "If you planted in it seeds of hate, it blossomed love". I want to live like that.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Yeah. All of us have our own stories. And, you know, the Bible says you heap coals of fire upon their head. What that means is you do good to them. You pray for them. You bless them. It's not just in one verse, it's, like, in six verses in the New Testament. When somebody treats you badly, what do you do? You treat them better. You treat them the way you would want to be treated. Well, they don't deserve that, absolutely don't. Heap coals of fire on their head. The Bible says that's how you deal with this. But if you take the betrayal to your heart, and you allow the betrayal to be your definition of who you are, it will destroy you. And I pray that if you're in a situation where that has happened to you, you don't allow that betrayal to become who you are, 'cause you are not that. You are God's child, and you need to take control of the situation.
Sheila Walsh: In your seventh message, it's titled, "In a World of Lawlessness, Be Kind". Have you ever seen such a lawless time in our country?
Dr. David Jeremiah: We do live in a world where law has been put aside, and people do whatever they want to do. Where there's no law, there's no love. And in that world in which we are now living, that should say something to us about, are we at the world of the end? Like you said, "I've never seen this before". What does that mean? It's greater than it used to be. It's more intense than it used to be. It's more frequent than it used to be. That tells us something. Jesus is saying, "When those things begin to happen, lift up your head. Your redemption draws nigh".
Sheila Walsh: Amen. In that kind of lawless world, be kind. You know, it's what we teach our children. Why do you think we're struggling, as adults, to be kind?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, the human nature is, if somebody is unkind to you, you be unkind to them. For a Christian, the Bible flips the script. The Bible says if you have been treated in an unkind way, what does it say? Bless those who mistreat you. Bless those who persecute you. You say, "Well, that's not natural". It absolutely is not, it's supernatural, and that's what makes it such a Christian thing. You can do what other people can't do. And I've seen it over and over again where people have been hurt, take the hurt and turn it back on the person in a gift of kindness or blessing or prayer, and God uses that to do miraculous things.
Sheila Walsh: What would you say to people who say, "Well, I think kindness is more like weakness"?
Dr. David Jeremiah: You know, I actually do pray on occasion, "Lord, don't let me become a grumpy old man. Don't let me become a mean old"... Have you ever been around mean old people?
Sheila Walsh: Oh, gosh, yes.
Dr. David Jeremiah: I mean, mean old people are really mean. Looks like they've been practicing their whole life, and now they've come to some sort of specialty. Kindness is the outcome of being gracious, asking God every day to help you be gracious.
Sheila Walsh: I love that; one of the things my husband does is he'll often pay for the people behind us, or he'll pay for somebody's dinner before we leave. Wouldn't it be like a tidal wave of love if God's people decided to be kind?
Dr. David Jeremiah: I gotta tell you one story about that; how many of you know that, during COVID, valet went away?
Sheila Walsh: Oh, yeah.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Did you ever notice? I mean, I don't like to have to find my car, I can't half the time, so if someone takes care of my car for me, that's a huge blessing. But valet went away, and a lot of the guys, that was their whole resource. When the valet went away, their resources went away. So, I went to a doctor's appointment recently where I used to go to valet. And when the guy came, I gave him $50. And he said, "You want some change"? And I said, "No, sir, I don't". And he said, "Are you sure"? I said, "I'm absolutely sure". I said, "I want you to be blessed. I know this has been a tough time for you". To be kind and to find ways to bless other people, it's gotta be one of the coolest things you can ever do, just as a person, if you're not even a Christian; but if you're a Christian, and you can do it in the name of Christ, and representing his love to other folks, it's just really special.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah; your next message is, "In a World of Bad News, Be the Good News". I love the emphasis on not just sharing the good news, but being the good news.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Right, well, you know, the end of the prophecy that Jesus gave said that in the end of the world, the gospel will be preached to the end of the ages. The whole world will hear the gospel. And the Bible says in that dark hour, in tribulation, the world is going to experience its greatest revival. There's no evidence in the Bible that there's gonna be a great revival before Jesus returns, but the Bible is very clear about the fact that during the tribulation period, there will be thousands and thousands of people who will come to Christ, because the gospel will be heard around the world. We're trying to do our very best, even before that time, to get the gospel out. I just found out this week that "Turning Point" is now in 14 different languages. We're trying to get the gospel all over the world, but we won't completely fulfill that. It will be fulfilled during the tribulation when the gospel is heard by everyone in the entire world.
Sheila Walsh: For those who might not understand that, that's after the church has been raptured to be with Christ.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Correct, correct. I won't be preaching. I'll be up there, yeah.
Sheila Walsh: We'll be long gone.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Yeah.
Sheila Walsh: With all the bad news and everything we hear about every day, how do you maintain this spirit of hope and encouragement and inspiration that you always are to us?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, I read the last chapter.
Sheila Walsh: We win.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Yeah.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah, that'll do it.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Yeah, we have this little joke in our house, 'cause Donna always, she reads books and she reads the last chapter. And I said, "Honey, doesn't that ruin the end"? She says, "No, it helps you figure out what's going on if you know how it ends". So, I've taken that as kind of a little deal. I've read the last chapter. When you read the last chapter, you don't have to worry about what's going on now, because you know where it's all going.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah.
Dr. David Jeremiah: And God is in control. There's a whole section about living in a determined way, not being discouraged. Jesus told everybody that if you don't give up, if you don't give in, you will be saved. And he doesn't mean saved in salvation, but you will come to the end, and you will endure.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah.
Dr. David Jeremiah: And, you know, how many of you know endurance is a big deal right now? You can't just do what you feel like doing. That's the thing I've been learning more and more. It used to be, you know, it was nice and sunny, and there weren't a lot of problems. You feel like getting up and going. Today you've gotta tell your body, "Get in gear and go do what you're supposed to do. I know you don't feel like it, but do it anyway". You've gotta talk to yourself.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah.
Dr. David Jeremiah: Because it's hard. We've talked about this before. This world is harder to live in than it's ever been since we've been here. What that means is we've gotta be tougher than we've ever been. We have to have more endurance. We have to have determination. I'm not going to let these things overwhelm me. I'm going to do the next thing that God wants me to do with all my heart. And when you do that, you find a kind of joy and excitement about living your life that's hard to explain.
Sheila Walsh: You give a beautiful illustration about that where you talk about the great preacher John Stott, who, when I was a student at London Bible College, I used to go hear him on a Sunday night. Great preacher. But he's in the last days of his life, and his friend Os Guinness comes to speak to him and asks him, "How can I pray for you"? Do you remember what John Stott said?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Well, I know that he said something very victorious, that he would be faithful all the way up to the last moment.
Sheila Walsh: To the last breath.
Dr. David Jeremiah: To the last breath, and he's on his deathbed, and "How do I pray for you"? "Help me not to blow it before I take my last breath," you know, that's kind of what he said, you know. And he was faithful to the end.
Sheila Walsh: Yeah.
Dr. David Jeremiah: And faithfulness and endurance is a high, high quality to develop. And do you know how you learn that? By going through tough things like we've going through. That's why I think that whole principle, that we aren't to always pray that circumstances will be better, so our life will be easier, but we should pray that God would use the circumstances to make us better, so that we can be more effective for him, so that we can do our work with greater intensity and determination. If God doesn't intervene, we're going to experience some things we've never experienced. I am praying for the intervention and preparing for whatever God allows to happen, because he's up to something for me, and for you, and for all of you who are watching. The Bible says don't be surprised when these things happen to you. The thing I love about Jesus is he wants us to know the truth. He wants us to know the future. He goes out of his way on the Tuesday before he dies to give us the longest speech he ever gave about what's going to happen in the future. He says, "Please hear me". The Olivet Discourse is his message of love to us.
Sheila Walsh: And, honestly, I found it so encouraging. And I know we all will. We can't wait to dive in deeper, but I just wondered, before we close, would you pray for us, Dr. Jeremiah?
Dr. David Jeremiah: Father, we know that we are living in the world of the end, we know that. We know that the things that are happening have never happened before, especially in conjunction with each other. We see, Lord, so many things that we have never seen before, and we are so thankful that we are not alone. You've given us your incredible Word to help us know what to do. Help us not to be thrown off course by the things we've never experienced before, but to look to you for guidance and direction. Make us men and women of the Word of God. May we study your book as never before, because there we will find the hope and instruction. We will know what to do next. I pray that if there's someone watching on television who's going through a time of real serious concern and stress about their life, that you will lift that burden as they look up to you and know that you care about them, that you love them, and that you gave your Son, Jesus Christ, to be their Savior. And if they're not Christians, Lord, may they come to you in faith and ask you to come into their life and save them from their sin, and give them eternal life, and then the hope that comes with that for every day that we live on this earth. Thank you for the privilege of sharing your truth, of being a little microphone to be heard by people around the world, and we pray that you will bless this message with your singular blessing as you do. In Jesus's name, amen.
Sheila Walsh: Would you help me thank Dr. David Jeremiah?