Craig Groeschel - Cynt Marshall, The First Black Female CEO in the NBA
— Let me tell you about our guest today. Cynt Marshall is amazing. She literally for 35 years was a part of AT&T, rose to be the senior vice president of human resources, and the chief diversity officer. From there she’s now the CEO of the Dallas Mavericks, an amazing accomplishment for anyone, she was the first Black female NBA CEO in history, she’s a dear friend, a regular speaker at the Global Leadership Summit. She has a book out called «You’ve Been Chosen, Thriving Through the Unexpected», get ready to be blessed, I wanna welcome my good friend Cynt. This is a dream come true, to have you on the podcast. You are, you’re an extraordinary leader, one of the best of the best, and you’re even a better person, so.
— Thank you, oh my goodness.
— It’s an honor to have you to share with our leadership community, thank you for being here today.
— I am so glad to be here with you, oh my gosh.
— I wanna just mention your book again, we’re gonna talk about it some, but «You’ve Been Chosen».
— Yes.
— «Thriving Through the Unexpected, » I just wanna say to our community, this is a book that has a message that will impact your life written by a person worthy of learning from, and emulating, and so we’ll talk more about the book, I just wanna make sure that we let our community know about it, but I wanna start more in the beginning of your leadership journey, even before you had a title, when was the first time that you recognized you had influence, and you could make a difference leading?
— Okay, now my sister will tell you, my oldest sister Cassandra will say, it’s when we were growing up, and I just took over all the play activity. And told everybody who to get in the red wagon, where we were going around the corner and all that kind of stuff, she likes to tell that story. I remember it just a little bit, but I don’t remember being as aggressive as she said I was, and I was basically bossing them around, okay?
— Yeah, I bet she might have, might be telling the truth.
— Yeah, maybe, maybe, but I do remember in high school being the senior class president, and really having to lead, and actually having to lead us through of adversity at our high school. And I went to a pretty diverse high school, but we needed to kind of diversify our leadership council, and so we took some steps to do that. And I was the first African American to be the senior class president, and my buddy Terry was the first African American to be the student body president, and it’s something we actually planned, because I decided I wanted to do that. And so I had to lead that class, and it was awesome. And so I learned a lot of lessons that I still use to this day, and then I learned a lot of leadership lessons at church, all my church activities and being vice president of the choir and all that. So I learned leadership at an early age.
— So I think at any time, being the first of something in leadership, matters. Being not only Black, but being female, probably that was almost like a double first.
— Yes.
— As president. I’m guessing that there are a lot of people in our community that may be similar, they may be the first woman in ministry in a place where that wasn’t as common. Or they may be the first 23 year old to ever have that real leadership position, or the first one to start a business in their family. Can you tell me as someone who broke a lot of ground, 'cause that wasn’t the only time you were the first something.
— No, no, a lot of first, a lot of firsts.
— What does someone who’s the first in a leadership role need to know? What do they do? What have you learned?
— What I’ve learned is usually being the first is something that other people talk about, I never really pay attention to it. Most of the time I don’t even know it. Because you don’t, I mean you end up, you know, for whatever reason where the Lord puts it on you or whatever, you go out for something, you make it, or somebody selects you for something, and then you just have to, you have to do it. And so I never focus on that, but when somebody brings it to my attention, the first thing I think about is, okay, I can’t be the last. I’m the first but I’m not going to be the last. And then I think about what needs to happen in order for me not to be last. So I need to do a great job; so what does that mean? I need to show people that it’s okay to have somebody who looks like me in this job. I need to make sure I’m developing a pipeline of the second, to third, the fourth. So between wanting to do a great job, so I can just take this whole notion away, that a woman, or a Black person, or a Black woman, can’t do this big job, I have to be great. And there’s a whole lot that goes into being great. But then I have to make sure there’s a pipeline. I have to make sure that somebody else is coming up, and that’s what I focus on.
— So that’s really interesting, because immediately you’re not just talking about what you need to do but you’re talking about empowering other people.
— Oh it’s all about that, it’s all about that.
— Many leaders would miss that, because they would think, I need to do this, and I need to prove myself, and you’re already talking about others around you.
— Well that’s why we’re leaders, to serve. I mean leadership is all about serving.
— Yes, but that’s not obvious to everyone so I wanna make it really clear, you were immediately thinking of others. Can we talk about complicated issues? Can we just kind of go there, together?
— Oh go, like, go.
— So, in what I do, the first time that we were really asking, we were praying, that we could raise up or find a female leader in a role that hadn’t been there traditionally before. And so we had a candidate that was interviewing against a man, and they were like going, do you wanna try to tip the role toward her, and I told him, absolutely not.
— No.
— What I want you to do is I want you to hire the best person in the room.
— Yes.
— And then anytime there was someone, like let’s say it was a female leader coming in, or maybe it was someone who is, has a different racial, is different racially, or a different background, or maybe even a different kind of education or whatever. I always thought, and tell me if this is accurate, or put it in your own words. I always thought, I don’t want someone who comes in that’s a woman first and a leader second, or someone who’s Black first, or white first, or Asian first, and a leader second, I want someone coming in that is a leader, or a pastor first, who just happens to be Black.
— Yes.
— Or just happens to be female, or, can you tell me, what’s the difference when we get that mixed up, and why does that matter? If it does.
— Oh, I love it, and I love the way you’re looking at it, and it’s the right way. I mean I will be so bold as to say, it is the right way. Because what you look for is competence. You want somebody who is the right match for the job. Who has the skillset to do the job, who has a proven ability to lead. And so you look at all of that first, and as you know at AT&T I hired a lot of people over the years, I mean I did it for a living, okay? And you look for competence first. And then if that person just so happens to be a person of color, or different from the others around the table, that’s a plus. Because in order to be successful I truly believe you need a diverse group of people around the table, diverse backgrounds, diverse thoughts, all of that.
— Or you’re always limited.
— Right; but if you just go for, «Oh, we gotta have a woman in this job». Or, «We gotta have a Black person in this job, » or «We gotta have an LGBTQ person in this job, » and that person is not qualified, you have done a disservice to them first, to the people they are to be serving, because the last thing people need is an ineffective leader, and you’ve done a disservice, frankly, to the whole culture. So it’s gotta start with competence and being qualified, and there are people out there that are competent and qualified.
— That’s very true, that’s very true. So, 35 years at AT&T.
— Yes, almost 36. Is that crazy?
— That is really, yeah, so I got a billion questions about that, I’m gonna just try to limit it to two.
— Okay.
— The first one is, you started relatively low in the organization and then you rose to almost the very, very top.
— Yes, correct, the top, yes.
— What did you do, when you were starting out, that enabled you to quickly rise and influence? 'Cause we got a ton of people right now that, are newer.
— Yes.
— What were the qualities that you brought that stood out?
— Okay, I did a few things. First I learned our business. I mean even, I came in on a fast track management program, so I had opportunities to be promoted and all that, and I actually turned down a few promotions, actually four in my career. And one, the first couple it was just because I wanted to learn our business. I was young, 21 years old, I started leading people, so I started out supervising operators, but then I had an opportunity to take my boss’s job, a year and a half into it.
— A year and a half into it?
— Yes, and I didn’t do that. I didn’t do that because I wanted to just learn our business. Because I knew, you know, I would climb in the business but I wanted to know what was going on there. I just didn’t wanna be one of these bosses that had to just totally rely on their people. Which you do rely on your people, but you wanna know about the area so you can truly serve them. And so that’s one thing I did. I truly learned the business for the sole purpose of being able to serve my people. So for example one time I had a big group of installers and technical people and all that, who were actually like three levels below me, but I went to pole climbing school. The union could not believe it. They actually came out, took pictures, they threw me a big party on my last day. Now I didn’t need to know how to climb a pole, I didn’t need to know that area of the business, but I did it so I could serve the people. So I could have empathy. So if I’m negotiating with the union on a contract I would know exactly what the people needed.
— So to be clear you’re talking about climbing a telephone pole?
— Oh I can climb a telephone pole.
— Okay, I just wanna make sure.
— I still have the boots.
— Because there’s people that climb poles like that’s a metaphor of like climbing up in the business, but you’re talking about.
— Oh no, no.
— You went to school to learn how to climb a pole.
— Yeah, you go, I mean you can’t really find them that much, you can’t really find them that much anymore, but the all wooden poles and all that.
— 95% sure that’s what you’re saying, I just wanna make sure.
— Oh I have a picture, well you’ll see a picture later of me actually up on the pole, that the union actually took. So I did that because I wanted to really serve the people and have empathy. So I have what I call the three L’s of leadership. And so this is what I learned early in my career, and I’m still focused on it. The three L’s of leadership. In order for me to be a very effective leader, I have to listen to the people, learn from the people, and love the people. So listen to them at a level where I’m truly engaged with them, and I can actually hear what they’re actually not saying. And so that’s a deep level of listening, because people won’t tell you everything, but as a leader, you just gotta figure some stuff out, okay? Then you have to learn from them. So that’s what the pole climbing was all about. Learn their environment, learn what they really want, what they need everyday, all that. And then love the people is the biggest one. And love them as people, not as employees. So love that person who gets up in the morning, they’re in bed, all the dreams they have, the cultures they have, the backgrounds they have, the baggage they have, that’s the person who gets up and walks into our doors in the morning. Or shows up on the screen. And you gotta love them. And you have to know them and meet them where they are. As people, not as a person that’ll go into a phone booth and put a big M on their chest for Mavs, or T on their chest for AT&T, you gotta love the person who gets up out of bed in the morning. And if you truly love them as people, and you serve that person, you’ll be a great leader and you’ll get anything out of them. So that’s my three L’s.
— I’m so frustrated right now 'cause I have a thousand questions. I almost need help clearing. So, back to something you said about, and based on my reading and research, when you stepped into the CEO role of the Dallas Mavericks, that was a ridiculously complicated time.
— Very complicated.
— Very challenging, and I think it’s true to say that you tried to meet with every significant leader one on one to listen, to learn, and to love them.
— I met with every single employee in the organization. Not just the leaders, every single employee. And I would start out with the same statement. I’d say, give me your story, give me your whole life story, tell me about yourself. Nine out of 10 times they would say something like, «This is my fifth season at the Mavs». Or, «This is my tenth season at the Mavs». And I’d say, «Were you born here? Were you born, like here, at the Dallas Mavericks? I wanna know your story». And it would always catch them off guard because hardly I guess no one ever asked them that. And so then they would tell me their story. I said, «No, I want you to kind of like backup, like from the beginning. Where were you born? I want the whole story. I wanna get to know you».
— So this is so natural to you, or at least it’s learned and now a part of who you are, but this is not natural to most leaders. Most leaders would wanna come in and say, «Now let me tell you about me».
— Right.
— And bring their resume, and, did you learn this principle? Did you, is it true to who you are? Where’d that come from?
— Probably both, it is true to who I am, but what I noticed over the years is that I was becoming more and more of an effective leader when I did things like that. Because sometimes I can start a new job, I had 15 different jobs in my 13,088 days at AT&T, okay? And so, every now and then, you know, you get in the job quickly and you just hit it, and you just go. And if there was, if I didn’t feel right, it was always because I didn’t really stop to get to know the people. And so, then I’d have to backup. So now I’ve just learned, I have to do that. I have to start that way. I don’t care what the crisis is, I don’t care how pressing the issues are, because at the end of the day people produce results, so you gotta get to know the people.
— I can imagine how valued they all felt to have time with you, and for you to listen to them tell their story.
— Oh, they loved it. And in fact so I would start out that way, and then I, and then we’d talk about a lot of stuff in between, and then I would end the same way. I would say, tell me where you see yourself five years from now. Personally and professionally.
— All about them.
— Personally and professionally, because I wanted to know the dreams they had, for themselves, for their families, all of that, 'cause my job as a leader is to serve that whole person, and to create a leadership team around the table that will serve all these people. And so I know the folk, I just did this with our interns, earlier this week and last week, I met with most of them.
— So that’s another level.
— Oh it’s a whole nother level 'cause now they’re posting in you know they’re posting their into all this social media.
— Now you’re getting street cred.
— Oh I’m getting street cred. Like they’re posting stuff on social media, and one day I had on like, a soccer jersey, and my high tops and stuff, I’m like, «Oh my goodness, there’s preachers out there, it’s kind of cute, though». It’s kind of cute, I’m looking young and like.
— You’re looking fly.
— Yeah I’m looking fly.
— I’m not even sure if that’s the right way to say it.
— Oh that is, that’s actually what I said. I mean I got four kids, so I gotta be fly every time in leave the house.
— They keep you in the game, right?
— Yes, they will.
— Okay, so I love that, so you’re listening, then you said something that really stood out to me, and, because intuitively this is something that I look for, but I’ve never talked about this with someone, you said you’re listening for what’s not said.
— Yes, because sometimes you just know, I mean if you’re intuitive, and all leaders should be, and sometimes it’s not natural but you pray about it, the Lord will give you discernment, and intuition, about the people you’re leading. And so sometimes I just wanna get in there and get real close to them, and I have like two brown chairs in my office, sometimes they’ll sit at the table, and sometimes I’m like, «Let’s move over, to these chairs». And I’ll put them kind of close up, and I just listen. And I’m like, «Okay, there’s something they’re not saying». And so sometime I’ll call it out, and I’ll say, «Okay, » and I just had to do this recently with one of my leaders, I said, «Okay, you got a little baggage». I said, «Something happened to you once». I said, «Let me tell you about something that happened to me». And I’ll tell a story, and I said, «Tell me what happened to you? What keeps you from just totally, totally, being authentic and going all in? Like, what’s going on»? And then they’ll start telling me stories. And it’s because as I listened I just knew there was more to the story, and there was something that wasn’t being said that’s influencing how they do their jobs. So I’ve gotten good at it.
— You have gotten very good at it. And, I’m sitting next to you thinking, I’d like to work for you.
— Awe, thank you.
— And I don’t say that about many people, but there’s just a genuineness about you, and so.
— I love these people. I truly, like, love these people.
— So your book, «You’ve Been Chosen».
— Yes.
— I wanna try to get, this gets complicated for me to do, but what I wanna try to do is I wanna get the why behind you, and then the how. So you talked, your mom, was very special.
— She’s wonderful.
— And so there’s likely both something in your childhood that shaped you, and then there’s also a how, meaning, you may be more naturally loving, or more empathetic, or more caring, but we can all get better. And so I wanna start with the what, or the way, maybe, behind your story. And then I wanna talk a little bit about the how, how we can actually become more like that. So let’s talk about the what or the why, and you talked, 'cause I’m baiting you, 'cause you talk about in your amazing book, but tell me a little bit about your mom, and your childhood, and how that shaped you to become the leader you are today.
— My mom is amazing, she’s 87 years old now, still in the San Francisco Bay area, but she left Birmingham, Alabama when I was a baby. Because she wanted her kids, she didn’t want her kids growing up with a lot of segregation and all the stuff that was going on at the time. So she had this vision and these big dreams for us, and so we landed in a public housing project, saw a lot of bad, crazy stuff. I actually, we were poor, very poor. I saw my father shoot a man in the head, in self defense, because this teenager came to our door, actually somebody that we were growing up with.
— Grew up rough.
— Yeah, I grew up kind of rough, but I had a, I do believe I had a good childhood. I would describe it as a good childhood. I mean my mother had us in church all the time. She put two books in my hand at an early age, a math book in one hand, and a Bible in the other. Probably in that order. And just said, kind of like, keep your head in these two books and you’ll make it out. And so when this thing happened at our house when I was in the seventh grade my father actually shot back in self defense. This guy came to our house, I happened to be the one standing on his side, right? So it was in self defense of me. And my mother figured out a way for us to go to school, because with all the chaos and everything, we had to be sequestered in the house. And education was everything for my mom. And so you’ll hear me talk a lot about education matters, zip code doesn’t. Yes we were growing up poor, we were in the public housing projects, but I got a great education, and my mother saw to it that we got to school everyday. And so when this stuff happened, and we had to stay home, my mother figured out how to get me to school. She had a uniformed police officer take me to school in the seventh grade. And he would show up and ask me if I wanted to ride in the police car or he’d ride the bus with me. And it was beautiful because he did exactly what was written on his car, to protect and to serve, and that’s what he did. And, so they got me to school everyday. Four years later my parents got an ugly, violent divorce, my father broke my nose when I was 15, and so we had to leave our house. And so when we came back from the summer, my mother’s prayer, she’s a praying woman, my mother’s prayer was that we would make it back home before school started. Because she had three in school, I was gonna be the junior in high school, head cheerleader, all that, but I get my nose broken. So we get back home a week before school starts, prayer answered, just about everything is gone in the house. So as teenagers we’re all in uproar about that. And I’ll never forget what my mom did that day, 'cause we’re like, «Where are our trophies»? 'Cause you know I ran track, I was «Cynt the Sprint», our trophies, all of our stuff, school is getting ready to start.
— From now on I’m calling you «Cynt the Sprint».
— You can call me «Cynt the Sprint», you can call me «Cynt the Sprint». Yes, yes, so. She literally just told us to be quiet. So we just quieted the house. And she said, all I want is peace of mind. God will provide. He will take care of us. And as a teenager we’re like, «Well, we need our stuff». I mean school is getting ready to start. But you know what? Stuff started showing back up to the house. He took care of us. My mother told me to go to school. With this brace on my nose. I went to school, I’m cheering and everything like nothing had happened. And three teachers and a principal saw me, embraced me, found out what was going on in our family, and knew that my mother had this desire for her kids, this great desire, I already had some before me starting out in school and stuff, and, they embraced me. And the rest is history. That’s why I’m all about the village. And they embraced my mom and she worked with these people, and I ended up graduating at the top of my school district. And I got five full scholarships to the college of my choice; is that crazy?
— This is a fascinating story. So on one hand you grew up in poverty, and saw, and experienced extreme violence, and yet you had a good childhood.
— I did.
— And in many ways the cards were stacked against you, and you were class president, and had offers to the best colleges around, so that’s a, there’s an attitude of overcoming, there’s a positivity, there’s a faith, there’s something different, because other people who grew up in that same scenario don’t end up, you know, in a healthy place.
— Right, right, and some people who grow up with a whole lot of stuff.
— Don’t end up in a healthy space.
— Don’t end up in a healthy place.
— But it’s a mindset perspective.
— It’s mindset, it’s perspective, but the way I describe it, and even when people ask me, «What is your book about»? I say, «My book is about how God and great people always showed up in my life. And how my mother is the village, and how my mother was always open to inviting other people in, and letting other people in, because she knew she couldn’t do it by herself, as strong as she was, as many jobs as she had, 'cause my mother is a strong woman, and a strong woman of faith».
— So you know other people loved you, and believed in you to help you succeed, and so you wanna do that for other people.
— Yes, I knew it, I mean that was my experience, every time we were laid out, there was always a hand picking us up, and I know that’s how the world is supposed to happen. That’s why my theme song in life, is «Ain’t No Mountain High Enough». Yeah, the Marvin Gaye Tammy Terrell version, okay? The fast version.
— Is Cynt the Sprint also Cynt the Singer?
— No but I can dance.
— Okay you can dance.
— Oh I got moves, I can dance.
— Cynt the Shaker.
— Yeah that’s right, I can move. And so, but that’s why that’s my theme song, is because there ain’t no mountain high enough to keep me from getting to you. I mean, you just call me.
— So I wanna just fast forward, and I apologize, 35 years, I wanna ask you about how and why you last.
— Okay. I wanna hear, there’s so many, but I wanna fast forward to the Dallas Mavericks, because this is fascinating to me. So you’re at AT&T, you’re not in the NBA. And Mark Cuban.
— No. And I had retired.
— And you were retired.
— I retired after 36 years, that’s enough.
— Mark Cuban sees something in you, which is fascinating, I wanna hear a little bit about what he saw, and then when you came in it had to be, there’s gotta be, a thousand cross over principles of leadership that are true everywhere, and there had to be a thousand new things that you hadn’t seen before. Can you tell me a little bit about that journey?
— Yes, so when Mark called me, and I did not know him. I guess everything broke out at the Mavs and somebody told him, my name came up a few times, and I get this call from this person who I really did not know. So when I went to see him, and so we kind of, you know he told me the whole story. And I’m thinking, «Lord I don’t know if I’m gonna do this». But it’s a long story, but truly the Lord orchestrated, the whole thing, so he made it very clear to me this is what I was supposed to do. At this point in time. I thought I was getting ready to do something else. That’s why you gotta, you know, you gotta be in touch with the man. Okay, so I ended up accepting the job, not knowing a thing about the business of basketball. Huge basketball fan, but didn’t know a thing about the business of basketball, and Mark told me, «Don’t worry about that». He said, «I need a leader, » and basically his mandate was to transform the culture. He said, «I know about the worked you’ve done at AT&T, I need that here, I need a leader. I will teach you and others will teach you the business of basketball». I thought, «Okay». And at that time I really didn’t know there was so much business to basketball. There’s so much more that goes on than what’s on the court, okay? But I did know how to lead. And I basically laid out a vision, a set of values, and the values spell CRAFTS. Character, respect, authenticity, fairness, teamwork, and safety. All based on my personal, and safety is.
— Tell us again, one more time, and we’re gonna put them in the leader guide, but would you say it one more time slowly?
— Character, respect, authenticity, fairness, teamwork, and safety, both physical and emotional safety. So those are the values that I laid out for the employees, and I laid it all out for them before I went to talk to the media, because your people shouldn’t hear things out in the public before you tell them. If you can help it, okay? And so I met with all them first. We laid out our vision, we laid out our values, and I laid out a 100 day plan, shared that with everybody, and then said, «Okay, I need a diverse group of leaders around the table, and I’m gonna meet with every single employee in here». And that’s kind of the recipe. That’s what we did. The things I didn’t know about the business of basketball, I know a whole lot now, but, I have people around the table that taught me. My colleagues, there are 30 NBA teams, so 29 of my colleagues, around the country, so many of them called me on day one. Because the competition is only on the court, they wanted me to be successful, they wanted the Mavs to be successful, and they told me so much stuff. And they still do, about what I need to know about the business of basketball. But my job truly is to lead. And so that’s what I do.
— So I think that Mark is brilliant. And to believe that you’re a great leader and you can come and learn the business of basketball, that’s just, that’s classic leadership.
— It really is, because when I think back at it, I’m like.
— It doesn’t make a lot of sense.
— At first I thought he lost his mind, and once I started learning about it, I’m like, «Has he gone crazy»? But he is brilliant, he really is a business genius.
— It was a move that almost no one would have made.
— Right.
— And he saw something in you, and you were the right person for it long before you may have even thought you would be a candidate for it.
— Right, and here’s what’s great. Because when I found out that, you know, when they started talking about me being the first Black female CEO of an NBA team, my boss never thought about that. He didn’t know that just like I didn’t know it. It’s to the point you made earlier.
— He picked you.
— He was looking for a leader, he was looking for competence, somebody with a proven track record of culture transformation and all that, he was not thinking about the fact that I, that he was, basically putting the first Black woman in that place.
— Did you feel weight? Because if you hadn’t done well, then it might have been a while before there was a second; what?
— Well you know what? I didn’t feel a lot of weight. I mean I think about it, but I knew I had to do a good job, but I knew I would do a good job. Because I know the recipe. It’s not all on me. It is truly, it’s just, not all on me. I mean when I get up in the morning I know I got a whole team of people, and I just don’t feel the pressure. I knew, we had a lot of media stuff going on, all that, so I just knew we had to work at a pretty fast clip, and I’m type A, and I’m a workaholic, but I actually integrate, so I have my family, so I got a pretty good balance. I mean at this point, I mean I had 36 years of exper, 37 by that point. So, I didn’t feel the pressure. I know I have to do a good job, I know we will do a good job, and we will do a good job. It’s not just about me, I have learned that, I have learned that. Gone are the days when I had all the pressure on me, because those days led to an ulcer, led to just all kind of stuff, gone are those days, I rely on the people.
— Yes, so I want our community just to let this soak in for a minute, because what, Cynt, what you’re saying is brilliant. So you’re walking into an industry that you love but don’t understand. So you know that if you come in, and if you cast a very clear vision, if you create the right culture by clearly articulating, communicating, demonstrating the right values, choose the right people, who will create the right systems, then you can change the direction to go in the vision that’s desired, and that applies to.
— Everywhere.
— Any type of organization.
— Everywhere.
— Anywhere you go.
— Everywhere. In fact, when I talked to a new employee one time, he said, Cynt, it never dawned on me the importance of values. And he was one of the new employees, he could feel the difference between kind of what happened when he walked in, how it was, and then a year or so after we were there. And he said, I never thought that that should be something I should ask an employer about, what are the values? And our values, and here’s what I told our team. I said, these values will be on the walls, 'cause you know you wanna have it laid out, and all that. And I got the hashtag for each one of them. Like authenticity is hashtag, «Do you, » and we describe what that means to do you and all that. But I told them, «These values will not just hang on the walls, but they will operate in the halls. And here’s what that looks like». And then we’ll give examples. And then I’ll say, «And we will call each other out when we don’t see it». And so when we had our big 100 day plan, we would have these ceremonies all in the middle of the floor, to kind of like check it off. And so, 'cause we were doing this as a team, right? Everybody was all in. And one day I was getting ready to check off a compensation item. And I’m all excited about it, and I’m pumped up, and I’m juiced. And then people are just looking at me. And I’m like, «Okay, something’s going on». And so somebody raised their hand and they said, «Cynt». And I’m the CEO. And they said, «Uh, we can’t really check that off. We know you’re excited, but we can’t check that off today». I’m like, «Why? What happened»? They said, «Um, we don’t know what that looks like yet». And then I looked over at our HR person, and she goes, «Cynt, we’re not talking to everybody until later today and tomorrow». I got ahead of myself. I don’t know how that happened but I got ahead of myself. The beautiful thing is they called me out. I mean, they called me out, I’m like, «okay, well what day can we check it off»? And they all talked, and they said, «Okay, we need through, come back on Monday». I said, «Okay, we’ll come back on Monday». They truly called me out on it. I love that.
— So they have permission.
— They have permission, they knew that.
— You wanted them to.
— It’s about character, it’s about integrity, all of that, and you know, and trust and transparency. And so they called me out. And then I had to ask my HR person, I said, «What happened»? And she said, «I don’t know, 'cause I told you». I said, «I guess I forgot». So it was my fault, it was totally my fault. And that’s okay I can admit it was my fault.
— So this podcast is all about leadership, and we’ll speak into, I mean all sorts of different people, we’ll be in boardrooms, and, so there’s no question on where I stand on my faith, and I never hide it, but I lead with leadership, and, so we got people that are people of faith, people that would be of different faiths, people that don’t believe anything, that, you know, don’t even believe in a God.
— Okay.
— But I like your style, you obviously, we share the same Christian faith, and sometimes there are people in the business world that might share our beliefs that are less effective, than those that are more effective. I feel like you’re very effective. What makes someone, what are the qualities that someone could actually be a person of faith, and lead well, being a good influence on others rather than maybe turning them away from faith?
— First of all I think authenticity. I know who I am, I know whose I am. And I don’t shy away from that. Just like I wouldn’t want anybody shying away from who they are. When we say authenticity, that applies to us too. I get to be me, just like you get to be you. And that’s okay. Because we need all of it. And I think there’s a belief that I have that we truly need all of it at the table. Whatever it is. People deserve to be able to work and thrive and be a great place to work. No matter what their beliefs are, religious beliefs, and all that kind of stuff, okay? We want people to be able to get the job done. And so I take pride in the ability that I can lead lots of different people. If somebody says, Cynt, can you come outside and pray with me? 'Cause it literally would have to be outside. And I’ve had, I had a chairman one time who’d call and say, «Cynt, come to my office». So I’d go to his office, and he’d say, «Can you pray with me»? Like, «Where’s your Bible»? And I said, «My Bible is in my desk downstairs, everybody knows where I keep it, I don’t walk around the building with it. I’m not walking around the building laying hands on people». And so, if somebody calls it out and they need it, fine. But it’s not about that. It is about me living a life everyday, as a leader, one that is pleasing to God, where I am loving his people. All of his people. No matter what their backgrounds are. And leaders have to do that. And so that’s what I try to do.
— You do that well.
— I try to, I don’t get it right everyday. I don’t get it right, 'cause I have biases.
— None of us do. But you do it well. I wanna be careful, because we’ll talk off mic and we’ll talk on mic, but you’ve been through a lot. In your life. And right now, at this very moment, you’re going through a lot.
— Yes, my husband was diagnosed with multiple myeloma on Monday, a blood cancer that’s in his bone marrow and all that, so we just found that out on Monday.
— Yes, and so, we’re actually, we’re gonna pray for Kenny.
— Thank you, thank you.
— And I’m just curious because I know there are a lot of leaders out here right now that they’ve got their own version of that. Could be that they’re bleeding out, and barely can stay afloat. It could be they’ve got a lawsuit that they’re facing. It could be that they got that one employee that they just can’t seem to remove out, and can’t get off the fence with, and then there’s a toxic culture, or a bad marriage at home, or whatever it is, and they’re hurting right now. How do you show up and lead well when you’re hurting personally?
— Okay, and you know, you mentioned it earlier the title of my book is «You’ve Been Chosen». And especially those of us that are in leadership, we have been chosen. We’ve been chosen, and I don’t believe for a second that we’re going to encounter anything that we can’t handle. Because we all have each other, we have something working that’s bigger than us, whatever people wanna call it, and so we know we’ve been chosen to be in our seats. And so I think about that all the time. My first job is to lead. And different things have popped up as you know in my life, and one just popped up on Monday, to try to take me off my game, and I can’t have that. Yes I have to deal with it, we have to stop and address it, but there is something bigger that I am called to do, and I can’t get sucked up in one circumstance that I know will come out just fine. So part of it is just having faith. But faith without works is dead. I mean we gotta work out the plan, we gotta do what we gotta do, okay? And so, but I know I have to lead. It’s just like I knew I had to be here today. I’m a part of all of this. A part of something big that the Lord is doing, a part of something big that leaders need. And I can’t just take some news I got on Monday and say, «I’m not going to go and carry out the larger purpose». And so it’s not always easy to do, but we have to rise above ourselves. I try my best and I don’t get it right, all the time, but I try my best to remember that I’m called to do something.
— So I wanted to tell our community, hang with me till the end, we’re almost done, but I wanna just take a moment, and I wanna tell you thank you for being you. For context we’re actually at the Global Leadership Summit as we’re recording this, we’re gonna finish this and finish it relatively quickly because you’re about to speak to hundreds of thousands of people.
— Yes.
— Just a few days after your husband was diagnosed with cancer, you’re here to serve because you are an others oriented leader. You’re a Christ centered leader, and it shows in what you do so I wanna say to our community, you wanna consume the resources from people that have lived the life that you want to be able to live. This is someone who’s overcome lots of odds, and broken barriers, and made amazing progress, added value to people, and created organizations that are thriving today. And done it with a great attitude, with great family, with life balance, and with a very sincere faith. So the book is called «You’ve Been Chosen», and what I wanna say to our community, is I want you to feel it that you have been chosen. Meaning you have what it takes to do what you’re called to do. You’re special, you have very unique gifts, you’re placed in a very unique environment to make a very real difference. I want you to feel it, I want you to believe it. If you can see someone who was raised, and was a victim of abuse, and saw abuse, and yet has an attitude to say it was a good childhood, and was raised in poverty and yet doesn’t just rise out of it but climbs out of it, by hard work, integrity, faithfulness, endurance, relationships, if you can get the right people around you and grow with the right resources, you can become a leader worth following. So be sure and get the leader guide. Go to life.church/leadershippodcast, we’re gonna give you information with her book as well as more information for her, and then we’re gonna close this thing out by praying with you
— Thank you.
— for Kenny, and so, I don’t want it to be
— Thank you.
— Weird to our community, so if you’re not comfortable you don’t have to be a part of this, but we’re gonna pray. God thank you for Cynt, and we pray for her husband, Kenny. We thank you that she’s seen healing in her family before, and we believe she’ll see healing again. Touch his body and bring healing, we pray, empower her, God, to continue to being a light in a dark world, thank you for her, and bless her in every way. We pray in Jesus name, amen.
— Amen.
— And we just got better, and he just got better.
— Amen.
— And everybody wins when the leader gets better.