Craig Groeschel - Becoming Strategically Unreasonable
Hey, welcome to the «Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast». Where we’re incredibly passionate about helping you become a leader that people love to follow. If you’re new to our leadership community, we drop a new teaching on the first Thursday of every month. And I wanna just plead with you to get the leader guide. We work really hard to put extra valuable content in there to help you in your leadership. Go the life.church/leadershippodcast Now, in today’s episode, I’m gonna share a very personal talk that I did at a smaller kickoff event for the Global Leadership Summit.
Let me tell you about the Global Leadership Summit. The next big summit is coming on August, the third and fourth of this year. It is the biggest leadership conference in the world. And there are locations all over the U.S., as well as online. Now for the record, this is not a paid ad. I have never one time in the history of this podcast taken a paid ad. This is just from my heart, because this is a conference that changed my life as a leader. And now, I’m actually honored to do the opening talk. I’ll be speaking alongside with world class leaders like James Clear, my goodness gracious, «Atomic Habits». Patrick Lencioni, «Five Dysfunctions of a Team,» and on and on, one. Condoleezza Rice, and Dave Ramsey. Cynt Marshall, the CEO of the Dallas Mavericks, and many, many more.
You can get your tickets with information, even on a discount if you go to the Leader Guide, will tell you how you can find a site near you. And today’s talk, what I’m gonna do, is share about a time that I learned that you might actually wanna be unreasonable as a leader. I’m not talking about the bad, unrealistic demanding unreasonable leaders. But we’re talking about strategic unreasonableness. And I’m hopeful that this talk will help you grow in your leadership. Let’s bring this thing to a close with some passion, how about that, huh? If you’re reading, say «I’m ready». Are you ready? Those of you online, type it in the chat, «I’m ready» one more time. For the very passionate studio audience, if you’re ready, say «I’m ready». Are you ready?
When I tell you the theme of our closing talk, it may make you a bit uncomfortable at first. I wanna tell you just please, hang in there with me. To introduce to you the idea, I’ll tell you about one of my initial staff members. I’ll show you a picture of Jerry Hurley back in the old days. This is Jerry with our arms crossed looking very tough. Jerry was a district superintendent, district manager for Target. He oversaw 11 Target stores. And I was unable to find anyone who would join our team as an associate pastor. Everyone I asked said no, because we were a startup organization, with a $30,000 a year, benefits included package to offer for a very high-quality level of living in Oklahoma, and couldn’t find anyone to join.
Jerry was a new member of the church, and I started casting a vision of what it could be if you used his business wisdom in a spiritual context to make a difference. And I could not sell him on the idea. We had a very bad idea to take our little church that was meeting in a bike factory, and move it into a skating rink on an Easter Sunday, so they could all fit. And a skating rink is a great place to couple skate and crack the whip, but not a good placed to do church. Nevertheless, we did church there. And we had a big crowd of 400 people. The first time we’d seen them in one place. And I put my arm around Jerry as we were on the outside of the skating rink by the popcorn stand. And said, «Look at this. If you joined me, not only could we touch a city, but we may touch a world». And Jerry said, «Let’s do it». And he joined the team.
One of the greatest gifts to me would be my team of directional leaders, all business leaders who fell in love with the church. I just love when business leaders fall in love with the church, and bring their wisdom. And so, one of the first meetings, I said to Jerry, it was kind of a historic moment that we talk about often. I said «I had this idea, but I need you to understand it’s aggressive, it’s expensive, and you’re probably not gonna like it». And I said «I hate to be unreasonable, but.». And he stopped me in front of our other two staff members, and said, «No, no, no, no». He said, «Don’t ever apologize for being unreasonable». When you are strategically unreasonable, that’s what makes this place great. What I wanna do, is I wanna talk to you about unreasonable leadership. Because unusual times, demand unreasonable leadership. And we are in some very unusual times.
Now, when I talk about unreasonable leaders, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of you right now have a little bit of… TTSD, because you’ve worked for some unreasonable leaders before in your past. And maybe someone was overbearing, or controlling, and consistently unreasonable. That’s not what I’m talking about. When you generally think about unreasonable leaders, I would say there’s three qualities of a bad, unreasonable leader that you see. One is that the worse type of unreasonable leader leads with a top-down force, demanding unrealistic results. There’s this top-down controlling, dogmatic, often arrogant, or narcissistic style of leadership with a thumb’s down that has no empathy for people, demanding unrealistic results.
There’s another type of action that unrealistic, unreasonable leaders are often blindly aware of the real issues at hand. They’re just out of touch. They don’t know what’s going on. And this is unhealthy in organizations. A third problem with the wrong type of unreasonable leaders is that they lack empathy that devalues the team, and kills morale. They just don’t really care about the heartbeat of the people and the culture around them, and it kills the team and the morale. How many of you honestly, and you can type it in the comment section I have, how many of you have ever worked for, or around a leader like that? Raise your hands. Okay. Whatever you do, do not point at them. Especially if you are their direct-report right now. Do not do that. We are working toward love.
But when I talk about being unreasonable, I’m not talking about that. I’m not talking about being unreasonable all of the time. I’m not talking about being reckless, or careless, I’m not talking about being unreasonable for no purpose. What I’m talking about is what I would call strategic unreasonableness. Because I’ll say it again, that unusual times often demand unreasonable leadership. And the reason, if you’re taking notes, you can jot this down, is because reasonable leaders tend to produce reasonable results, right? A reasonable leader tends to do what’s known and what’s expected, and what is safe. And that’s why progress often depends on unreasonable leaders.
Let me warn you, and let me tell you very, very directly. That it takes intentionality to overcome the gravitational pull toward reasonableness. It takes intentionality. It takes initiative to overcome the gravitational pull toward be reasonable in your leadership. And it’s not because being reasonable is bad, it’s just because being reasonable is easy. It’s reasonable. Reasonable leaders are rarely controversial. When you’re reasonable in your leadership, it doesn’t often require risk. Reasonable leaders rarely rock the boat. And people rarely criticize reasonable leaders. But, you are not the normal type of leader. You know that you have a higher call, and you have a deeper passion. You have a burning fire within you that knows that you weren’t created here just to add temporary value, but you’re here to make a difference that will outlast you.
And so, if you want to break out of what is, and break into what could be, there will be times, I promise you, you will need to be strategically unreasonable in your leadership. And I wanna talk about that today. Here’s what I wanna do. Instead of really telling you like what to do, anytime we wanna grow, we wanna learn how other people think. It’s impossible if I tried to mirror what Daniel Pink does. I can’t, I’m not him. I can’t do what he does, but I learned to think how he thinks. And what I wanna do is, I wanna give you three different ways to think about being strategically unreasonable in your leadership. The first different way to think is this, number one, I wanna encourage you in your leadership, to think what first, and think how later. This is super-important. Think what first, and think how later.
And I would ask you right now, what is your what? And I hope that as a leader, you could tell me instantly, immediately, without hesitation, without reservation, what is your strategic what. Meaning what is it that you’re trying to accomplish? When is it gonna be done? Who’s gonna do it? What is the target? What is the when? How do you know when you’re there? Because if you don’t have a what, you don’t know, your team doesn’t know when they’re winning or when they’re losing. And so often in our organizations, our what is just doing what we did last week without any clarity, any focus, any direction, any vision.
What is your what? You wanna be incredibly clear about what specifically you want to accomplish. For those of you that are in the ministry world, I would say you would even wanna be very, very clear about the words that you use to define your what. For so many pastoral leaders right now, the world I continue to hear is a word I would beg you not to use. And so many people say there what is to rebuild the church. Which in my opinion, is really a bad goal. Because if we’re trying to rebuild, we’re trying to go back to what was, and what was is no more. No more. If we are continually trying to rebuild, that means that we’re failing until we get there. And I don’t know about you, but I don’t lead well when I’m failing.
What I wanna do is be crystal-clear on the words. We’re not rebuilding towards something in the past, but we’re building toward the future. And we wanna be very, very specific about what it is that we are actually building. If we wanna drive in with clarity, because a lot of people are gonna recognize now that yes, we’re still building gatherings. But are we also building digital gatherings? Do we believe in it? Do we not believe it it? Where is our focus? What is our strategy? We need clarity to know if we’re winning or not. What is your what? Think what first, and then how later. Because, it’s impossible to have a how without a what.
What we’re gonna do, is we’re gonna start with a what, we’re gonna clarify the what, we’re gonna lean into the what, and we’re gonna sell out to the what, because if your what is compelling enough, the good news is, you will figure out a how. Start with the what, start with the what. I’ll give you, I’ll tell a few stories today just kind of from our past leadership. One of the most memorable and profound moments in the history of our church leadership was a failure in 2007 when we started a website that was designed to help people engage with scripture. Noticing that around the world, people are not engaging with scripture, as they had been in the past. So, we started a website that was supposed to be a combination of Facebook, YouTube and the Bible. And it was brilliant, except for nobody, including us, used it. It failed miserably.
The good news is that we had amassed a lot of what I call Biblely-stuff. Just like Biblely-stuff. Like Bible versions and translations. And we had earned the right to use this from a lot of publishers and trusted people. In April of 2008, April of 2008, Pastor Bobby Greenwald came into my office and said, «Hey, you may have heard that Apple is coming out with apps». And I said, «Yeah, I’ve read some articles about that. I’m not exactly sure what an app is. But I know they’re coming out with apps». And he said, «I think what we should try to do, is take what we have on the website, that we’re about to cancel, and we should try to build an app. And maybe we can have the first app to the Bible store, the first Bible app to the app store. And maybe if we did that, we could help people engage with scripture». So this is April. And I said when do apps need to be turned in for consideration? And he said, «Well, the good news is we have almost two months to build an app».
Now, here’s what you have to understand. Is I don’t even know completely what an app is. No one has seen an app yet. No one has used an app yet. This is a concept that we don’t fully understand. In case you’re curious, we’re a church with pastoral-like people, not app-like people trying to create something that hadn’t been there. And we looked at and we asked ourself, just how important, how strategic could this be? Someone is going to do it. And if we do it well, it could potentially be one of the most important things in the world to get scripture out. And so, we defined a very clear what: build an app. Build an app. The what drove the how. Too many people start with the how, and say we can’t do this, because we don’t know how.
If you what is strong enough, you can figure out the how. What’s your what? There are times, listen to me, in your leadership, you have a what, but you feel like it’s too unreasonable. Unusual times demand unreasonable leadership. You might wanna be very, very clear that this is very specifically what we want to accomplish, and we’re gonna figure out the how. So if you haven’t heard the story before, we found the smartest part-time kid on staff who’s 19. We said «Can you build an app»? He said «How hard could it be»? I said, «I don’t know, you got two months». With no money, no budget, no experience, no staff, a 19-year-old kid built an app. We turned it in June, it went public in July. It opened on a Thursday. On Sunday it had 81,000 downloads. On Monday, the 19-year-old kid had a full-time job.
So I don’t know what leader this is for. But clarify your what. Figure out the how later. If your what is strong enough, you can find the how. Get an unreasonable drive to figure it out. And I would just ask you in your leadership, when is the last time that your what was so compelling that you figured out a how that everybody else thought was impossible? Maybe there’s a leader here that needs to clarify the what. This is what we are. This is word, this is the vision, this is the goal. Think what first, and then think how later. The second thought I wanna encourage you to do is this. The number two is, to embrace your limitations. To embrace your limitations. Because reasonable leaders tend to think reasonably. And we tend to think, well we would if we could, right?
That’s the way a reasonable leader thinks. We would do more if we had more. We would reach more people if we had more money. We would grow faster if we had more people. We would do a better job if we had more ideas. And excuses drive on and on, and on. And I tell our leaders all the time that more resources don’t drive innovation. But limitations actually drive innovation. Limitations drive the innovation. A couple of stories in our world. We were honored to pioneer in the church world, kind of multi-site movement. When we started, to our knowledge nobody else was doing it. Nobody else. Come to find out, there one or two other churches that were doing it. We didn’t know them, they didn’t know us, so we were all kind of breaking ground along the way.
Why is it that we started experimenting with multi-site? It is because we could not afford to build a big enough building to fit the people in. And I was devastated. I was mad at God. Where is the money? Where are the resources? Why can’t we do it? If we had the resources, we would of done what everybody else did. We would of built the big building. We would of built the 4,000 seater, whatever. If we had the resources, we would do what everybody else did. But because we didn’t have what everyone else had, we could see what no one else had seen. You guys are being way too quiet. This is really, really important.
Pastor Albert, I think I’m teaching a little bit better than they’re responding. Maybe I need to wear your pants again, I don’t understand. It’s so often I think I need more to do more. God, let me just tell you, is never sitting in heaven going, «I’d like for you to do something important, but I’m gonna hold back on you, not give you what you need». I’m gonna tell you right now, you have everything you need to do everything that you’re supposed to do. You have what you need. And anytime you don’t have what you think you need, maybe and so you can see something that you haven’t seen before. It’s not more that makes you innovate. Who’s the most innovative companies out there? Startups, who don’t have a lot of money. Once you have a lot, you tend to overspend, and overthink, and overwork, and take too much time. You don’t need more.
Limitations drive innovation. Perhaps one of the greatest innovative events I’ve ever been a part of was back, remember the housing crisis, '08-'09, so many of us were panicked. Non-profits were wondering how can we keep things going? And I had a friend that many of you would know of his ministry, and teaching, Dave Ramsey, who contacted me and said «Hey, people are hurting. And you have a lot of church friends. And I have a lot of people that are in the money space». He said, «What if we tried to do a one-night event, and called it A Night of Hope»? So he had a title, he had a what. We didn’t have a how. And he said «We’ll do it on such-and-such date». And here’s the amazing thing is. Neither one of us had a budget, we didn’t have a plan. And in less, if you can imagine this, in less than 60 days from concept, with no plan whatsoever, no budget.
In less than 60 days, this was picked up by one of the largest national television programs, and with his network of leaders, and my network of churches, it was broadcast, and some people tell me, and they claim it to be true, the world’s largest live broadcast in the history of the world. To over 6,000 churches in a live experience done in less than 60 days. Now listen to me, you don’t have to clap for the results, clap for the innovation. You don’t need more time, you don’t need more money, you need more unreasonableness in your leadership. Believe it can be done, believe it can be done. Some of the greatest things that you’re gonna do, everybody else believes is impossible.
What I’m telling you in telling that story, I promise you, if we had a $5 million budget in two years to pull the event off, we couldn’t of done it. We could not had done it. Money wouldn’t of done it. More time wouldn’t of done it. An unreasonable passion to make a difference seizing a window of opportunity was necessary. And some of you right now, you’re at that place. Where you gotta do something different. You gotta seize the moment. You gotta feel the opportunity. You gotta step up as a leader and believe that you can do what no one else believes can be done. And in your mind, and the people even around you, they will, «Well we can’t, we don’t have this,» and on and on. What we always say is this, we don’t say «We cannot because we don’t have». We say, «We can because we don’t».
It drives an innovative spirit. Somebody here believe me when I tell you. You have everything you need to do what God wants you to do. Embrace your limitations, be unreasonable. Be unreasonable in your leadership. Because sometimes unusual times demands unconventional, or unreasonable leadership. So to lead with strategic unreasonableness, we’re gonna think what first. We’re gonna embrace our limitations. And this is an encouragement I think Daniel Pink would probably like this thought. When you fail; fail actively, not passively. When you fail; fail actively, not passively. My dad who played minor league pro baseball, he said «Son, when you strike out, you strike out swinging. You don’t take strike three».
As a leader, if we’re gonna fail, hey let’s fail trying. Rather than sitting back and doing nothing. And the reason this is so important is because as leader you’re not going to hit every single target. You’re not going to achieve every single goal. And you’re not gonna fulfill every dream, or hit every projection. And so when you do fail, and we are gonna fail, why don’t we fail leading with faith, rather than cowering in fear? And I’ll tell you, it’s kind of embarrassing. We are broadcasting out of the Phoenix, Arizona area and I promise you, and this is no joke, there was a period of about seven years or so, where I didn’t wanna fly over Phoenix. I didn’t wanna take a connecting flight in Phoenix. I didn’t wanna go into 80 degree weather in January, and sit by a pool in Phoenix, when it was freezing in Oklahoma, because I was so embarrassed by what my leadership didn’t accomplish in Phoenix.
And to go way back in time, like I told you, our church had pioneered multi-site. And we were the first church to ever cross state lines. So we had a few locations that were doing relatively well. And in a moment of what I think Collins would call hubris, I would call naive faith and passion, we decided to not only jump state lines, but to jump a few of them, to a thousand miles away. And there’s a verse in the Bible that’s usually true, but it’s not true in Phoenix. And the verse says «Two are better than one».
And so we decided to start two locations in a new state. And found out that two are not better than one. That two didn’t work. And so, we combined them to one. And I made, and we made, our team made the most embarrassing series of leadership mistakes in Phoenix, that it’s humiliating to tell you. And if I had more time, I’d unpack it with you. But I made a list, I can’t remember if it’s 32 or 33, but it was like 30 plus significant embarrassing leadership mistakes in Phoenix. And what I discovered along the way, is that sometimes failure is the tuition you pay for success. Because it was in those failures that we learned what not to do. And we learned how to do it well. And with humility I can tell you we’re able to do it well today. We will in two weeks launch what will be our 40th location in 12 different states. Making a difference all over the world. And it was born out of something that was a failure.
There are too many leaders right now, and I’m gonna talk to some of you right now. You are leading, just like we heard in an earlier talk, you’re leading trying not to fail, rather than leading with faith to succeed. And sometimes in an unreasonable state you have to be willing to fail. Failure is not the worse thing. One of the worse things is defensive leadership. One of the worse things is passive leadership. One of the worse things is sitting back and not seizing the opportunities, and living with the regret. Because as a leader, you had the intuition that was possible, that you didn’t try it. And there was a church I looked up to for years, and still do look up to, that when we were starting off and younger, they were the bigger one.
And we talked to them, and they had taken more risk and drove more innovation, and plowed more new ground than any church that I had every seen. And then, I was meeting with their leaders and they said, «When you get to our size with this much going on, this much protect, you cannot afford to fail». They said «When you get to our size, you just cannot afford». They said «Failure is not an option». And I remember looking at that saying «Dear God, if I ever have that kind of platform, please don’t let me slip into that trap of fear». And we tell our team all the time, that failure is not an option, it is a necessity. It’s a necessity. It’s absolutely a necessity.
Because let me tell you this, write it down. If you aren’t failing every now and then, I promise you, you’re playing it way too safe. If you’re not failing every now and then as a leader, you’re playing it way, way, way too safe. If you’re succeeding too easily, it’s because you’re not thinking big enough. It’s time to think bigger, unreasonable leadership. At our church we say this, we say that we are faith-filled, big-thinking, bet-the-farm risk takers. I’m gonna say it again. Somebody is gonna like this. We are faith-filled, big-thinking, bet-the-farm risk takers. We’ll never insult God with small thinking or safe living. And we live by that, until we don’t. Until I get nervous. Until I get, I’m the coward, I’m the guy that got scared.
And we had one of the most emotional moments of unreasonable leadership in early May of 2020. If you can go back there in your mind, there. If you remember what we didn’t know there, and the fear that we were experiencing. In the church world, we had never seen anything like this in our lifetime. The doors were closed, it was all online. None of us knew what we were doing. And there was a sense of will we ever open the doors again? It was that scary. It was gut, it was, I couldn’t eat, couldn’t sleep. Scared to death, panicked leadership. And then if we can, will anybody ever come back? Will it be safe? And then all the controversies of when you do. Like you’re too this, and you’re too that.
This, and everybody hated us, it was horrible. And so there we were in the middle of that. And we were at a very strategic place where we had a piece of land in Colorado Springs. A state that we had never been to. A place where we had no momentum, no kind of any core. But we felt called to be there. And we had a decision to make. Do we break ground now when we have no idea of what’s gonna happen? Or, do we close that window and it could take literally 12 or 16 months to reboot the system. We would lose a very strategic window. And we sat there and tried to catch our breath. It doesn’t seem like a big deal now. In the middle of the moment, it seemed like all the weight of the world hung on that decision.
Do we believe anybody will come back? Do we believe there’s a future? Should we break ground on a $15 million building when we’re not allowed to meet? What do you do? And so, we asked some questions. Has the world survived pandemics before? Yes. Did people go back to meeting before? Yes. Would people probably go to movies again one day? Bet they will. Will they go to football games and take off their shirts, and fat people cheer at skinny people and tell them they don’t know what they’re doing? Probably yes. If we’re wrong, like we were in Phoenix, it will be embarrassment, it will be expensive, costly, hard to recover from, lose a lot.
If we’re right, and people are gonna be hurting even more, and need the gospel even more, we’d rather be wrong taking a risk. And we bet on the one who said «We bet on the church». We bet on the church. We bet on the one who said «Jesus, I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against us». And we bet on the church. And if I’m going to be wrong, I’m gonna be wrong betting on the church. And the picture, the building is there. This is the one that is up now. And it’s now 19 months later, and over 2,000 people gathered there last weekend worshiping God together because people need Jesus. And people need the church. So you’ll need to make some, to do something great. You’ll have to leave with unreasonable faith.
In the face of what looks like insurmountable obstacles, you’re gonna have to believe in your team. You’re gonna have to believe you have what it takes. You’re gonna have to believe you can figure it out. You’re gonna have to believe you can overcome. You have to believe that if your God is for you, who can be against you? You have to continue to believe. As a leader, I wanna encourage somebody here. In the middle of a really difficult time, I dare you to dream some unreasonable dreams. I dare you to think even bigger. People who do fives times as much as you, let me promise you, they’re not five times as smart as you. They just think five times bigger. They just think bigger. Don’t get trapped in thinking reasonably.
If you love what you have, keep doing what you’ve been doing. And I’m guessing that there are many of you that you’re gonna look at something and say, «That seems like a reasonable decision to me». And you’re gonna continue leading with a reasonable posture. That’s not bad, it’s just safe. It’s just easy. It’s just what most leaders do. But the good news is, if I can say it again, you’re not most leaders. You’re not just leading for a financial profit. And you’re not just leading to make your life better now. But you’re leading for something that will outlast you. You have a higher calling as a leader.
So, if there’s anybody here who might even hear this and think, «You know what? I’m a little sick of reasonableness». I’m kind of sick of just doing what’s expected. Doing what’s known. Doing what’s easy, and doing what’s safe. Let me just be clear, let me warn you. That being unreasonable is never, ever easy. Unreasonable always means uncomfortable. And I wanna encourage you and your leadership to find comfort in being uncomfortable. Find comfort in being uncomfortable. Why? Because growth and comfort never co-exist.
So, who are you? Who are you? You’re a leader, you’re a leader. You go first. You have vision, you have passion. You have intuition. You bring out the best in people. You create culture. You add value, you take risks. You steward what God has entrusted to you. You bring it back double, triple, four times over. He says «Well done, my good and faithful servants». You are, you can be a great business person. Listen to me. People say «Well, I’m like a second-class Christian, because I’m a business person». No, one of the highest callings is to treat people well. To lead with integrity. To multiply resources, to create jobs. To add value. To do something that makes a difference in this community. You are a leader. And I’m gonna tell you right now, your calling is too great, and your God is too good for you to play it safe in your leadership.
When may you be unreasonable? You may be unreasonable when you sense apathy. And then you step in with unreasonable vision. You may be unreasonable when you see selflessness. Or when you smell entitlement. Or when you hear baseless excuses from a team that you know you can pull more out of them! You may be unreasonable when you’ve been leading from a posture of comfort rather than standing up with a boldness of faith. You may lead with unreasonableness when someone tells you why something can’t be done. But you know you serve a God who says all things are possible with him. So I would say to you in your leadership, what are you waiting for? It’s a very unstable time to demand some unreasonable leadership. Leadership with integrity, leadership with heart, leadership with core, leadership with conviction, leadership with passion, leadership that stands up and says we can make a difference in this world.
There’s opportunities to solve, there’s problems to be solved. There’s opportunities to be seized. And you just look at it and say, «Somebody’s gotta do something about this». Might as well be a Bible app, might as be us. 500, half of a billion downloads a few years later. Half a billion. So there’s a problem, someone needs to solve it, it might as well be you. It’s time to be unreasonable in your leadership. So, let our good God awaken you, stir within you. Encourage you, stretch you. And aspire you. Provoke you to dream unreasonable dreams. To attempt unreasonable things. To lead with unreasonable faith. And watch our God do exceedingly and abundantly more through your leadership which will impact the world for generations to come.
Well, sometimes you have to be unreasonable in your leadership. And I want you to remember that unreasonable leadership isn’t always comfortable. But remember, growth and comfort never co-exist. So look carefully, where do you need to grow? Where do you wanna stretch in your leadership? Where do you need to come in with strategic unreasonableness to bring out the best in your people, and exceed even your expectations about what is possible? Now, let me remind you, get the leader guide. There’s discussion questions, and additional content, as well as information about the Global Leadership Summit. Go to life.church/leadershippodcast
And also, I just wanna ask a favor of you. Our team works hard on this podcast. And we’ve love to know specifically how it’s helped you in your leadership. And so, if you have a story, or kind of a testimony of how you’re growing as a leader, we’d love for you to share it with us. You can just email us at [email protected] You can also ask questions that we may include, and address those topics later on in the podcast. If this is helpful to you, please rate and review the content wherever you consume it. Honestly, that would mean a lot to me. And then, invite others to be a part on social media posts, and our team may repost you. And remember, let’s grow. Even if you have to be unreasonable sometimes, grow and stretch yourself, and always get better. Because we know that everyone wins when the leader gets better.