Craig Groeschel - The 6-Step Formula for Growing Any Organization (with Donald Miller)
If you go get an MBA in business, you're not gonna learn the basics of how to make money. You're gonna learn mergers and acquisitions and you're gonna learn why Silicon Valley Bank went down. You're gonna learn about first and second round funding of the, you know how many people actually get to that point? No, I mean, hardly anybody. It's like 1%. So we don't actually learn how to run a business in school.
— Hey Don, it's a great honor to have you on the Craig Show Leadership podcast. How are you?
— I'm wonderful. It's good to be with you.
— Man, it is super exciting to me to introduce our leadership community to you. Not only are you a friend, but you're somebody that I admire and have learned so much from. And every time you write anything, I am quick I would say to read it, but that'd be a lie. I'm quick to order the audio version of it, and listen to it. And you've got a brand new book that's just released. The title of it is "How to Grow Your Small Business".
— That's right. Yeah. It just came out.
— My problem is though, you don't have a small business though. You've grown all your small businesses to big businesses.
— Well, it depends. We all look at the other people who have a bigger one than us. So my business it's definitely grown, but I think small businesses like the quarter million to a hundred million range. So that's most of us.
— So you would know much better than I would when people start businesses. I've always read that certain percent of them don't make it. What does that look like today? It's the success to failure rate. It can be challenging starting businesses. Do you know what are the current studies there?
— It's dismal. It's dismal. So within a year, everybody starts a business. 25% of those businesses will fail within 12 months. 45% within five years, and 65% within 10 years.
— Wow. 65% within 10 years.
— And there's 33 million small businesses in America. So the 33 million are the ones who've made it. But millions of people try to start one every year. 65% of those are going to fail. And then if you think about it, entrepreneurialism in the small business sector it's the backbone of our economy. 33 million people have small businesses. If each of those are employing maybe an average of two, 'cause there's a lot of solopreneurs in there. You're talking about 66 to 99 million people who depend on the success of small business. It's too big to fail.
— It is.
— And they're failing for the stupidest reasons. I mean it's not like it's that hard. It's just that not unlike me 10 years ago, nobody can tell us how to do it. If you go get an MBA in business, you're not gonna learn the basics of how to make money. You're gonna learn mergers and acquisitions and you're gonna learn why Silicon Valley Bank went down. You're gonna learn about first and second round funding of the, you know how many people actually get to that point? No. I mean, hardly anybody. It's like 1%. So we don't actually learn how to run a business in school. And I wrote this book, almost every book I've ever written is a book I wish I could hand myself 10 years ago. Because here's the stuff you figured out. And I actually have a mentor named Bill, and he scaled his father's company up into the multiple billions. And then he started mentoring these younger executives of, and honestly, he started putting money into smaller business. Didn't put money into mind, but he was kind enough to kind of mentor me. And I will never ever forget. It's about eight years ago, standing in my driveway. I'd taken my business from a quarter million to three and a half million. I was incredibly proud of it. That kind of money, having grown up poor was astronomical to me. Here's this guy, he's a billionaire. And I said, I just made a passing comment. I said, "Man, I'd love to take it to a hundred million". And the first time, Bill, and we'd spent a lot of time together the first time, he maybe couldn't control his face, but it was very clear that he did not think I was gonna go to a hundred million.
— Your mentor.
— He did not. And I said, "Bill, shoot straight with me". He's about to get in his car. He said, "Okay". He took his glasses off and he said, "Don, in order to get to a hundred million, you're gonna have to professionalize your operation". That's what he said. "You're gonna have to professionalize your operation". I'd never heard that before, but it rang incredibly true. And he said, "Your business is too dependent on you. Congrats on getting a three and a half million. Love it. It's too dependent on you if you leave the business crashes, you've got to install systems and processes so that this thing runs like a dependable machine". And then I started looking around for a book that would help me do that, and really couldn't find anything. So I made about 500 mistakes professionalizing my operation, but I did six things right. And these are the six things that I put in the book. Since then, we're not at a hundred million, but we have gone this year we'll do about 17, and that was about seven years ago that Bill said that to me. So, and then I've doubled four times and I'm trying to double again. I'm trying to get to 32, 34 million right in there. And it's all because of these basic systems and processes that I put in this book that I was able to do it.
— So I've got about a million questions that just came to mind in that last little summary. What I wanna do, I wanna get to the six main lessons that you learned, and then I wanna learn about the professionalization of it. But before we get there, I kinda wanna go all the way back to the startup because when you were talking about how many fail, I was kind of wondering, "Are these people unprepared? Is it wrong idea, wrong time, wrong place, wrong people"? And you said they're about a million things. How many of these are salvageable? And what are the most common mistakes you see early on? And if that takes us into the six things, then let's go directly there now. But I can only imagine how many people right now are getting going and they're trying to write a business plan when they don't have the right people, or they're trying to find the right people when they don't have the right strategy. They're not profitable, they don't need systems yet. So walk us through the early stages and what are the landmines and what do we do about it?
— I have six frameworks and playbooks, three frameworks, three playbooks that you can install. And they're gonna help you align your business around three economic objectives. They're gonna help you clarify your marketing messages. They're help we can close sales, optimize your products, manage your people, and then manage your cash flow. Those are the six parts. But before we even get there, there's one that's more important than all six of them combined. And that is, you actually need to own your business. You need to own your business, and you need to own your future. And this is how I discovered that, because it's not something that you can do with some paperwork where you file an LLC or something. Like, that's not what I'm talking about when I say own it, I really mean psychologically, emotionally, it's yours. If this thing fails, it's your fault. I don't care that you can't blame anybody else. It is your fault if it fails. And you've gotta get to that place where you own it. This happened to me, as you know I was a memoirist. I wrote Christian books, wrote a book called "Blue Like Jazz". "Blue Like Jazz" spent 42 weeks on the New York Times best sellers list. I probably at the end of the day made, maybe million 1.2, 1.3 million in royalties off that book. And what I did with it, because I grew up poor, what I did with it, I said, "Don, this money's anywhere closer, you're gonna spend it". So what I did was I paid off my house. And I paid off, I had a great house, paid off the house, and I think I had about 350,000 at the time, paid off in the house. It takes 700,000 to pay off 350,000. You're splitting it with the government. And then the rest of it, I don't know what I did, I blew it. And so, but I had that money and I found another house in Portland, Oregon that I wanted to buy. So I sold my house and happened to sell a lot quicker than I thought it would sitting on the money go over to buy this other house. And the other house sold. So now I've got $350,000 and I don't know what to do with it, but the house I wanted sold, and I didn't want a new house, but I wanted that house. So I thought, "Well, I'll put it into this short term investment for six months, and I'll make five or 6% over the next six months". This buddy of mine was doing something. I put 350 grand in and one Monday morning woke up and it was gone. Every single penny was gone. Now, I wrote one book that took off. I'd written a couple books since they had done well, but they had not done that. I was pretty convinced, you're never gonna see this kind of money again, period. And from now on, you're just a working man. Like you won that lottery and you blew it and it's over. And that was such an emotionally debilitating, emasculating painful, cry yourself to sleep at night season. There was about two weeks where I felt that way. Not only that Craig, but the woman that you know, Betsy, who's now my wife, we had started dating about three weeks before then. So women, I don't wanna generalize, but women tend to be attracted to good looks. They tend to be attracted to intelligence. They're sometimes attracted to money. I only had one of those and I'd lost it. So I got nothing. Betsy could care less, you know Betsy. But at the same time, that was enough to make me say "Never, ever again. One, you're gonna take ownership of this. You're not gonna blame anybody. You made the investment, you made it. So this is on you". And then I said to my manager, I said, "I love you, but I'm gonna go on my own now" and let my manager go, let my literary agent go. And I let, and my assistant was already leaving. She gave me like a six month notice. And so I had said, "Okay, well I'm gonna replace this person with somebody who can help me run a company, and I'm going to start a business and I'm gonna get this money back". And I started like a conference business and we've done all sorts of things. And as my business has grown, we've turned into a small business coaching business, that was a little over 10 years ago, wasn't that long ago. And today, my wife and I give away at least $350,000 every year to charity. And it's all because of that foundational understanding of I will control my future. And of course, I mean that reasonably right. I'm going to accept agency for what God has given me to steward. And that was the foundation that allowed me to start growing a business. What I was doing before was I was trusting my agent. I was trusting my speaker's bureau. I was trusting, which is fine, but really if things didn't go well, it gave me an excuse, "Well, my agent didn't negotiate a good of a deal, or I let the publisher talk me into writing this book instead of this book". Instead of that, I was like, "Hey, no more excuses. You are in control of your future. If it goes poorly, it's you. If it goes well, it's you, but you're the one in control". So that to me was the foundation. And then as an entrepreneur began a business, I wrote, I happened to write a book about clarifying a marketing message. That book ended up selling a ton of copies, which got me a lot of consulting gigs. And then I started certifying marketers and pretty soon, a company started shaping up around me. And that's when Bill said, "You're gonna have to professionalize your operation". But the but the foundation for all of us has to be, "Dude, you own it. I'm sorry you own it. You've got to own it. And no excuses. It's on you".
— It's always been fascinating to me because I knew you first as an author, "Blue Like Jazz". And then it seemed to me like you went for almost overnight. "I'm an author, now, I started a business". Those don't typically compliment each other. So when you started a business, you really wouldn't have had much experience, I'm assuming.
— No, well, I had run a publishing company before I'd ever started as an author, but I was really making more editorial decisions as the head of a publishing company. It was really more of a literary position. But it's literally just like "The Power of Change". Just like in your book, all I did was chase curiosity and discovered, which was baffling to me that I was actually good at business. I wouldn't have ever ever thought I was good at business. I thought I was good at putting paragraphs together and writing literature. But the more I racked up a few wins, the more I was like, "Eh, kind of got a second nature of this". I would actually say I'm better at business now than I am at writing. But that was an identity shift and you talk about that in your book, how if you'd keep doing the same thing and you keep winning at it, your identity sort of shifts.
— Can anyone become good at business?
— Here's what you're asking me. If you throw anybody into the deep end, will they swim? Mostly, I really do. I think mostly, I think if you, business is about more than anything else, and this is a very controversial statement, especially to your audience. Business is about economics. And so if you are somebody who thinks, "Look, if we just love people and care about people and don't think about profit, the business will do amazing". I don't agree with that. It might do amazing. But you have to understand this business is about making money. And of course the love of money is the root of all evil, but money is not the root of all evil. Love of money is the root of all evil. So you've gotta understand how to manage it. And I would say anybody who understands, you know what I say, the very first thing in the book I say, is that your business should be aligned. Everybody who works for you or you as a solopreneur should have three economic objectives. In other words, literally you should say, "We're gonna sell this many of this unit, this many of this unit, and this many of this unit". And that has to be, it's in my formula, it's actually in your mission statement. So you have to see this as an economic machine that exists to make money. Now you can give all that money away. Betsy and I live off a small percentage. We literally transfer. I'm like the fifth or sixth highest paid person on my entire team. Now we also get the profit of the company, but we invest the profit. So we see it as a machine that makes money. And then we try to do good things with the money. The people who aren't gonna be able to swim in the deep end, are people who don't understand running a business it's an economic undertaking.
— When you say that's gonna be a controversial thought. According with my community and I would say I'm hoping to train our community. That's not...
— To think that way.
— It's not an unwise thought that in fact, if you wanna look at it from a spiritual perspective, in the gospels in Matthew 25, Jesus was pretty proud of the person who took a few talents, put it to work, multiplied and create more. And said that's applauded that person versus the one that didn't do anything with it. And if you're creating a profit, then you create jobs, and jobs, that's a good way to love people. And so I would say it really is.
— And there's a lot of people out there who have, and the reason I said it might be controversial, there's a lot of people out there who have a very negative mindset about money. They're anti-capitalist, anti-capitalist, anti-money. And I would say to you, "No, money is power. And if you have an anti power mindset, that is, you're not gonna go take any power or earn any power. You are giving power away to evil people". Because they're always gonna say, "I want money". So if you're not out there competing, you're just seating the market to people who are gonna do bad things.
— And there's a scarcity mindset too. If someone else has it, I don't, versus more of an idea that we can all create, add more value, create more profit, give more money away, which is what you're doing. So let's start with ownership. Like you really have to say, "Okay, this business is on me, no excuses. It's not about the market. It's not, I'm not gonna be a victim, I'm gonna own it". What comes next in the mindset? How are we thinking after that?
— After you own it, you come up with your three economic objectives. And that's in the first, there's six chapters. They're long chapters, but there's six chapters in the book. The first one is, you've gotta align your team or yourself around three economic objectives. Now you can have 20 economic objectives, but in your mission statement, I only want you to focus on three at a time. 'Cause the brain has trouble prioritizing more than three things.
— So let's talk to nonprofits right now. We had a lot of people running nonprofits and so the ultimate goal there is not to make a financial profit, but you have to have a working financial model or you don't have a nonprofit, correct? So what...
— That's right.
— What would be, let's say we are creating a ministry home for people transitioning from drugs. How would we convert those three economic drivers to a nonprofit like that?
— So let's say that your nonprofit had different ways or compartments of giving, you might say, "Look, we're gonna add a hundred people to our recurring donation fund that funds all the administrative costs. So these people are not giving money to the actual house or any of that stuff. It's just a small group of influential folks who we really love, who cover administration". Well, one of our economic objectives might be, "We're gonna add a hundred people to that at $200 a month. We're gonna try to do that. I like two years, 24 months. So we're gonna try to do that in the next 24 months. We're also going to build four new homes". That might be one of your objectives. And the other thing is, "We're going to pursue 10 more close relationships with high net worth individuals. But we don't just want their money. We actually want them to also volunteer". So if I'm adding a hundred people to cover my administrative costs, I'm raising money for four or five new houses and I'm adding high net worth individuals, I'm gonna be okay. I think where we get into trouble is when we say things like, "Well, we want to minister to 500 new people. We want to see 200 people take our addiction recovery pledge. We wanna see whatever". And none of those are actually economic. It's gonna be really, really tough for you to build that organization because businesses and nonprofits both have something very similar in common. They eat cash. They eat lots of cash. And if you don't feed them, they tend to die.
— I'm kind of glad you're saying that because sometimes in our attempt just to have a pure heart, we might have an ineffective strategy and that robs us of being able to make a real difference. So I like the fact that you would come up with, this is kind of unapologetic. We can't look at outcomes before we have the right economic inputs that enable us to do more. So I'm tracking with you, I've gotta have a real ownership. I've gotta have three economic drivers. And then I'm kind of, now what am I gonna do? What do I do next?
— Well, now you've got this mission that you're on. You're gonna try to drive these three economic objectives. And the very next thing you've gotta do is you've gotta be able to talk about those objectives extremely clearly so that everybody knows why they should either buy your products or donate to your cause. And so you're going to clarify your message. So the first thing that we're gonna do is we're gonna create three economic objectives in our mission. That's the leadership of our organization. Then our marketing is we're gonna create a really clear, a very clear message. And I wrote a book called Building a Story Brand, all about that particular framework.
— Fantastic book. I wanted to stop right now and say to anyone in our community that has not read, Build a Story Brand, stop the car, order it right now. Fantastic book. And I'm not overselling this one. It's fantastic book.
— Well, I'm grateful for that and I summarize that inside of this book. But then people have asked me for years, "Don, can you take that marketing framework and apply it to sales"? And so the next chapter, chapter three, is about sales. And the chapter on sales is really, it's a bit of a Trojan horse because it's actually a sales framework that you can use in elevator pitches and talking points over lunch, to give presentations, to write proposals. I just teach you to write an email and I teach you to write a formulaic email that has five parts and that's it. And if you write that email to your clients, if you write, say if you use that formula five times, it'll totally change the way your brain works. It basically invites customers into a story. You'll love this Craig. I did this twice in the last month. The first time I was with a company called Calix, they're a broadband services company. They put 250 sales reps in a room in Las Vegas. And they said, "Don, can you be one of our keynote speakers to our sales conference"? So I went in and I said, "Hey 250 people in the room, raise your hand if you got a sale hanging. Like it's just dangling. You're trying to close it". 250 hands goes up. That's what they do. And I said, "Okay, let's write them an email right now". Like, "If you got a computer on you, open it up. We're going to send them an email, we're gonna close the deal right now". Put the formula up on the screen, walk them through to how to write this email. And I had to catch a flight so I walk up the stage, the chief revenue officer says, "Thanks so much. That was really fun". Everybody claps, I'm outta the room, guy calls me next day. He says, "So far we've closed $2.4 million in sales".
— Man I hope they paid you well for that. I hope they paid you really, really well for that event.
— Well maybe I realized I wasn't charging enough. And I'll tell you what, it's not coercive. It's not manipulative. The problem with most of our sales techniques is we're trying to talk somebody into buying something they don't want. And if you have that view of sales, you're gonna hate sales. But if you actually have a more of a listener perspective on sales, we're trying to realize, "Wait a second, what problem do they have? And then how does my product solve that problem? And then how can I communicate how my product solves that problem in such a way they understand"? If you do that, they tend to pull out their credit card and buy.
— So I wouldn't do this to anybody else because I don't think anybody else could handle a question like this on their feet. Like you can, but I know you can. So let's go with the nonprofit ministry home. And so we're gonna learn how to pitch it. Am I pitching the person who needs it or am I pitching the donor? What's the first thought that comes to your mind?
— You can actually do either. So let me give you an example. Let's say I'm writing this email. You wanna start with the problem. And so you wanna say something like, "You've likely heard in the news, you've read it on your news feed, and you maybe even have friends whose lives have been destroyed by addiction. It's an enormous problem. It's a painful problem. It's a difficult problem to solve. However, for everybody who comes through our program, that is literally 97%, we've solved this problem. If you are looking for somebody to partner with, to solve this problem right here in our community, you can give to this". Now what I just did, here's what I did. I positioned the problem first. I positioned the product or the service as the solution to the problem. And then there's three more things you wanna do. You wanna give them a three step plan. So for instance, if you give us a monthly gift of more than $250, we will then buy a new home in which people go through our six month program. So you're giving them three steps that they can take in order to solve this problem. The next thing you wanna do in that email is you want to paint a picture of what happens if you don't give the money. "If you choose not to give us 250 bucks a month, that means two more people will not be able to enjoy these services. And by the way, there's a waiting list," right? "But if you do, two more human beings will six months from now, no longer be addicts. They'll be able to go back to their family, they'll be good moms, good dads, and we will keep up with them forever more. And they will spread the word". And then finally, the last thing you wanna do is say, "Give today. So here's a link and you can give today". So let me walk you through it. You start with a problem. Position your product as the solution to the problem. Paint a three step bridge from the problem to the solution. Three steps that you can take. Negative consequences of not buying the product, positive consequences of buying the product. And then a very clear and direct call to action. If you do those five things, I consider the negative and positive consequences one, if you do those five things in a formula and you write that as an email, your close rate on that email is going to improve dramatically.
— So I wanna ask you a question. My dream is I help shape leadership conference. What I wanna do is I actually want you to come as a guest sometime. Then what I wanna do is I wanna take a random business person that you've never met and I want them to give you their problem, 'cause you do this on your podcast all the time. And then I want you to give them advice. And then what I wanna do is I wanna sit there afterwards, it's almost like a magic trick. Like you'll wow people with the advice. I don't know how you simplify it. Then I want to ask you questions about how did you get there? And that's what I want to try to do right now, in my opinion, one of the things that make you so brilliant is you look at massive, complicated things and you see four steps, you see three steps. You can create clarity. When you're starting a business, when you're scaling it up, when you hit whitewaters, when you have a bad culture, how do you analyze a very complicated problem and crystallize a clear solution that is actionable and effective? What goes through your mind?
— Well, a lot of times you'll meet somebody and I meet these people occasionally and you'll think, "Boy, that person is just a savant". They're a business savant. In the world of business, really what often is happening with that person is they are actually just comparing what they're looking at to a standard and they're able to very quickly differentiate between what they're looking at and what the standards should be. So when I look at a business, and you're gonna love this 'cause you're an amateur pilot. When I look at a business, I look at it and I'm looking for an airplane. And here's what I mean, I'm looking at the cockpit to make sure that they are entering into the flight computer economic objectives. Now, if you don't do that, then that plane doesn't know where it's going. And nothing's gonna work. Then I look at the right engine, which is the marketing engine. You've gotta fire up that marketing engine to get the plane moving forward. You've gotta fire up that thrust. So now I'm looking at their website. Is their website confusing? Can people understand pretty quickly what problem they solve? If they can't, we can fix that. We can fix that right engine. Then I look at their sales engine and their sales engine is, are you inviting customers into a story? Are you using this framework? Are you making it super clear? Do your sales people like to sale or are they being coercive? We fix that left engine. The wings of the airplane are your products. Your products need to be very profitable and they need to be in demand. And we can optimize those products to make them even better. Then the body of your airplane is your overhead and your overhead is your biggest part of overhead is always labor. And so if you're not running a management operation system, your labor's probably really bloated and your plane's gonna go down. Then finally your fuel tank is your cash flow. If you run outta cash, you're gonna crash. So I believe more than 90% of businesses fail because of one of six reasons. And it's the six that I just gave you. So let's say I'm walking into a business and it's funded by private equity. They just got their third round or whatever, they're sitting on $20 million in their bank account and they've got an office in the nicest part of town with the nice furniture. They're taking me back into a little room saying, "Don, pick out any sweatshirts you want with our logo on it. Pick out any, here's some M&M'S that have our logo on it". What am I looking at? I'm looking at an airplane with the big old fat giant body. Tiny little wings, teeny little engines that are smoking and nothing entered into the flight computer. I give this business six months, right? But if I walk into a business and it's a warehouse and they're sitting on apple crates and they got 20 million in funding and they're like, "Look, we don't wanna spend any money on furniture. We're gonna put it all into the product because we want our profit margins north of 50%". You know what I say? "Can I invest"?
— Yep.
— Right. So you gotta know when you walk into the room where they're putting money, is the money going toward profitable products? Is the money, we waste so much money trying to look successful and it just doesn't work.
— And then when you are successful 10 years later, you do start spending the money on some of the stupid things. And it's hard to keep that entrepreneurial mindset and you get fat, slow.
— It's hard to keep that airplane lean...
— It is, it is. And we're 27 years into leading the church here. We were the leanest, most aggressive, fast moving group of people that I'd ever been a part of and we're not as much today. It's more complicated, it's slower and it's frustrating. You have to fight for that. And if we can take that part and go to the professionalization part, you've gone from three and a half million to 17 million in revenue, you've double, double, doubled, doubled, outside of those six incredibly important, fundamental qualities that we need. How do you think about starting to scale up? What changes in your mindset, do you think bigger in those six areas? Do you think different? What goes through your mind?
— Whenever we make a spending decision, I go back to the airplane. So let's say that we're about to hire, my team comes to me and says, "Hey, we need some project managers in these three different departments, three project managers". Well, I know that that's gonna make the body of the airplane bigger. And so what I wanna do is I'm wanna sit down and say, "Hey, we can make the body of the airplane bigger, but only if we make the wings bigger and the engines more powerful. So how do we offset this administrative cost"? And they say, "Well," and they come back to me and say, "Well, what if we create this new product that'll make us enough money to cover the project manager salary"? "Okay, well that sounds good". So the airplane can go from a single prop, ultra light if you know running on a rubber band, you always want to build everything in proportion. If we're gonna spend more money, the wings either need to be bigger or the engines need to be more powerful. So you want to just keep everything always in proportion as you build the business. And if you do that, you can get as big as you want. You'll never go down.
— Yeah, that's really wise. I think a lot of times what happens in like, in the non-profit or in church world, I talk about it as above the line below the line. So if you're trying to make the line go up and to the right, you've gotta have a what a above the line is gonna be your evangelistic thrust or your big youth group, or it's the thing that's exciting. The below the line has to be the cash flow, has to be the structure, has to be the admin in order for the line to go up, the structure or that which fuels it has to be strong underneath it. And those have to be working together or eventually the line falls and the bridge collapse. So I think your analogy is actually much more adaptable than that and more robust. I wanna help people find you. The book is "How to Grow your Small Business". Can you tell us about your podcast, about website? There will be people, what do you offer that we've got business leaders and even people nonprofit may wanna learn from you. Tell us where we can find you.
— Well, we're excited about an initiative we're doing now called "Small Business Flight School". It's something that launches in May. It is a cohort of small business owners. It's a six month program and the challenge to every one of them is double your revenue in six months. So if you're a $300,000 business, we want you at 600,000 in six months. If you're 3 million we want one at 6 million, it gets harder the bigger you get.
— Sure it does.
— But you can still do a 30, 40, 60% increase in revenue. And you're gonna do that by doing everything that you and I just talked about. We are going to overhaul six parts of your business and we're gonna do it in six months. So if you go to small business flight school, you can find out more about that program. It's just a wait list right now. We launch it in May.
— And the new book is out.
— How to Grow Your Small Business is available everywhere.
— And if people wanna come and find you, what's the best place to find Don Miller?
— Well, if you want to find pictures of my wife, my unbelievably cute daughter and my dog, go to Donald Miller on Instagram and every once in a while I'll tell a really, really bad dad joke.
— And if you keep it up, you're getting a new rower and before long you might be showing some like rower action shots, huh?
— That's where the plane crashes right there, Craig.
— We just didn't put enough fuel in that...
— Staying accountable.
— Yeah.
— Staying accountable to my leadership and fitness mentor. His name is Craig Groeschel.
— No, let's go man. Let's go. I learn from you every time and I appreciate you being with us. The book, How to Grow Your Small Business, anything by Don, you'll want to pick up, be sure and follow him. I promise you he'll change the way you think. I always tell people, don't try to copy what people do because you can't but learn how they think. This is a guy that you wanna learn how they think. And I wanna say to all of you, thank you for being a part of our leadership community. You will want to get the show notes, go to life.church/leadershippodcast. We'll link to all of Don's books, we'll link to where you can find him as well with detailed questions in here to go over with your team. Post on social media. If you post and tagged on or tag me, our teams may repost you. And hey, keep growing. Keep that airplane in the air. Let the wings grow, keep both engines going. Keep fuel in there. Make sure the cot pick is organized and press direct to and tell where we're going with the economic drivers and you will get better in your leadership. And we know that everyone wins when the leader gets better. Thanks so much Don.